Logging on a budget?

[IndyIan]

What about a simple capstan winch? Say a 4 to 1 chain reduction to a car rim?
Or a hydraulic motor of a rear remote? for more control/safety?

 

[Grandad4]

Since the tractor has hydraulics and a pto it makes sense to use that, although I'm not aware of any affordable hydraulic/pto winches. Any suggestions for those?

Ramsey make hydraulic winches for tow trucks, etc. An 8,000 lb hyd unit would go for over $1,000 just for the bare winch. By the time you got done fabricating all the structure to mount it, plumbing, etc., I figured the cost would be getting well on the way to just buying a real logging winch.

Now if you got a deal on a salvage unit from somewhere and had the time and tools, you could probably make something for less.

 

[Chilly807]

I looked into buying a hydraulic winch to go with my log hauling frame (see picture). The best solution I could find was from Mile Marker, they build winches that run off of the power steering pump for the recreational off-road vehicle market. One of our members here, 6sunset6, did get one of these working for logging, and found it worked well for him. Search to find that thread. If you go that route, check pressure and flow requirements/restrictions.

Like Grand-Dad said, by the time you buy all the bits and pieces a logging winch starts to look like a bargain.

Mine was bought by the original owner for firewood (Norse 290), he ended up not using it after all. It was still on the shipping pallet when I got it.

I may have given the impression I was going to sell when the current job is done. I'll probably have it for the next 25 years (I hope!), and sell it when I'm too old to use it anymore. By then I should be able to get back what I spent and maybe more, if it's looked after well. More of a long-term investment.

To me, it's a tool I need to do the job safely and efficiently, I'm getting too old at 46 to be crabbing around the woods with rolls of cable or chain. As much as I enjoy cutting firewood, I don't want to be bone tired and sore at the end of the day.

The rope is a viable option, the one I'd recommend is Amsteel Blue, or some variant of it. Warn uses it on some of their RTV winches now, but I've heard the abrasion resistance isn't that good. It's **** for strong, I've seen some pretty impressive lifts done using it at work. The problem I have with rope/cable/chain without a winch mechanism, is that if you make repeated pulls in one area you start to make ruts in soft ground.

Like Spyderlk mentioned, use a chain choker going to the hauling rope. Sharp rocks and grit don't bother chain much at all. I use Gr 70 1/4 inch chokers, although now with the winch I may want to upgrade to 5/16. Bigger is heavier, naturally..

Sean

 

[Mudfarmer]

Good for you, Mudfarmer. An electric winch was my first "build it yourself" concept, but I figured it would draw down the battery pretty fast, limiting how many pulls you could make at one time. Have you found that to be the case?

I keep the tractor running continuosly during operation of the winch because I was concerned about running down the battery as well. I assumed that the alternator would recharge the battery sufficiently at 1000 rpm. It takes about a quart of diesel to run 2 hours at that rate. Never had the battery go dead. I do the same thing with the pickup; as long as I am running the winch I keep the motor running in idle. I'm surprised at how little gas that takes.
Mf

 

[Mudfarmer]

I rigged an electric winch c/w remote control at about 50 ft.
I run it direct from my CUT battery via #4 cables using Anderson connectors.
The winch is probably rated at 5000 lbs ( I guess) as it is the size you find on SUV's.
The winch cable is 5/16" ad so far pulling out logs has not even taken out the kinks in the cable.
I did hang up the logs a few times, enough to lift the tractor fron clear of the ground.
I have found that my CUT battery handles it just fine as remember by the time you unhook the last pull, drag the tow line to the next tree or bundle lash it all together for the next pull enough time has passed for the battery to be close to being back to full charge.

My install is simple. Bolted the winch onto a 5/16 plate that was welded to a section of 2 X 2 tubing that gets pinned into my trailer tube.

In summary, for occasional usage electric winching seems to be viable.

Been my experience too - I'm slower than battery deplete with the engine running!!!
Mf

 

[Mudfarmer]

I wouldnt think that an electric winch motor would stand up to reeling in 200 feet of line day in and day out. It would likely burn up on the first pull unless you let it cool a bit. I would think 50 foot pull would tax them pretty good.

If you buy your winch from HF then they will replace it within 90 days. First I seriously doubt the veracity of the statement above. But if yourare working that hard, be sure to get it burned up in the first 90 days and get a free replacement.
mf

 

[Grandad4]

Been my experience too - I'm slower than battery deplete with the engine running!!!
Mf

Come to think of it, anymore I'm pretty slow myself!

 

[Baby Grand]

What about a simple capstan winch? Say a 4 to 1 chain reduction to a car rim?
Or a hydraulic motor of a rear remote? for more control/safety?

<snip>

The rope is a viable option, the one I'd recommend is Amsteel Blue, or some variant of it. Warn uses it on some of their RTV winches now, but I've heard the abrasion resistance isn't that good. It's **** for strong, I've seen some pretty impressive lifts done using it at work. The problem I have with rope/cable/chain without a winch mechanism, is that if you make repeated pulls in one area you start to make ruts in soft ground.

<snip>

Sean

Both of these thoughts have been on my mind for the past 2 years. I'm looking to build a PTO drive capstan winch that I can use with my ropes. I'd like to incorporate it with a 3pt skid plate/dozer blade. I'd use chain for chokers and actual skidding, with the rope just for hauling it to the tractor. My thinking is that the capstan winch gives you a cheap, effective winch that can be operated away from the line of pull and which allows you to run the line out to the log quickly.

 

[Dead Horse]

After logging for a couple of years for my own fire wood, I came to the conclusion I badly wanted/needed a winch. Putting up 10 cord without a winch was a LOT of time and labor. Once I started spending winters at my farm full time instead of just weekends, the fire wood requirement doubled. I need to have a minimum of 20 cord seasoned and ready to burn every year.

I just couldn't do that with out consuming a lot of time and taking risks I didn't like.

I bought a used Farmi from a member here, who bought it from another member here, who I understand also bought it used. It is a 13,200 # winch and I run it on the back of a Hesston 100 90. It is nearly a perfect match for that tractor.

I did replace all the bearings in it, which was a fairly easy job, (excepting for the weight of the wire spool).

I purchased it for a fair price, and it has been the best cost / benefit implement or maybe tied with my TPH mounted splitter, that I own.

I have put up prox 80 cord in the last three years, and there is no way I could have done this without the winch and TPH splitter.

I also fabbed up a skidding bar for times when the logs are already lined up fairly neatly and i just need to do a pull from the log yard to the wood shed, cutting yard.

 

[6sunset6]

There is synthetic rope with a 10,000lb working rating, and its tough enough to use as chokers! I forget the name of it but my local small scale forestry shop had 250' rolls for something like $400 I think. I'm going to get a roll and with some pullies and a cone so I can snake a log from all sorts of tricky spots without skidding winch.
I'm sure a winch is much faster but for a hobbyist getting a couple thousand bdft out a year, its probably more trouble to keep a winch running well and the cable sorted out so you can actually unwind it once you get halfway to your log... I guess 250 ft rolls of rope isn't really a treat work with either in the woods but atleast it was cheap!

Amsteel Blue expensive but 1/7 weight of wire rope, does not stretch ( means it just flops down if it breaks), floats,
does not bird cage on spooling out, splices like a chinese finger trap. It does not like to be abraded so keep it off rocks and trees. Snatch blocks and friction sleeves. I have 150' on a 9000# hydraulic winch and 50' on a hand winch.

 

[SpringHollow]

I have used chain and electric winches. A logging winch is the nicest especially with a larger tractor. The solution I use is a portable gas capstan winch and rope. I liked it so much that we started selling them at my business. The 1/2" low stretch double braided polyester rope is less than $0.75 per foot and is rated for over 8000 lbs of force. I find I use the winch for many more situations than just pulling logs so now I would not even buy a logging winch unless I started doing more than 30 face cord per year that I need right now.

Ken

 

[Baby Grand]

I have used chain and electric winches. A logging winch is the nicest especially with a larger tractor. The solution I use is a portable gas capstan winch and rope. I liked it so much that we started selling them at my business. The 1/2" low stretch double braided polyester rope is less than $0.75 per foot and is rated for over 8000 lbs of force. I find I use the winch for many more situations than just pulling logs so now I would not even buy a logging winch unless I started doing more than 30 face cord per year that I need right now.

Ken

Thanks, Ken - that gives me some confidence to go ahead with gathering materials to build a PTO capstan winch/skid plate. I already have 300' of 5/8" double braided polyester and assorted block & tackle and snatch blocks.
Jim

 

[SpringHollow]

With the setup you already have, if your trails are halfway straight for a 150', you could just use your tractor to pull out the logs using the blocks etc to change the direction of the pull to where the log is. I have done this with my utility ATV and my tractor. Not nearly as nice as using the gas winch but it works.

Ken

 

[piller]

I have used chain and electric winches. A logging winch is the nicest especially with a larger tractor. The solution I use is a portable gas capstan winch and rope. I liked it so much that we started selling them at my business. The 1/2" low stretch double braided polyester rope is less than $0.75 per foot and is rated for over 8000 lbs of force. I find I use the winch for many more situations than just pulling logs so now I would not even buy a logging winch unless I started doing more than 30 face cord per year that I need right now.

Ken

I was looking on the Bailey's web site, and saw this:
Bailey's - Portable Winch Co. PCW-5000 Portable Capstan Winch

Is this like what you have? The reviews are pretty good.

 

[crazyal]

I would love a pto winch but it would never get used enough to justify. I only burn 3 cords a year of mostly blow downs. At least 1/2 of which are close enough I can reach them with 40' of chain. It's just not worth it to me for a couple of logs a year.

I now have about 80' of 5/16" and another 60' of 3/8" chain. It might be more work but because they are each 20' it's not all that bad. It would be nice to be able to put a snatch block on a tree to pull at different angles but I make do.

Last year I saw a local rental company selling a Farmi 501. I never got around to asking but they may rent them out. If so it would make more sense to get all the logs ready to be pulled and then rent one for a weekend. You could pull the logs next to your skid road and come back later to skid them.

 

[SpringHollow]

I was looking on the Bailey's web site, and saw this:
Bailey's - Portable Winch Co. PCW-5000 Portable Capstan Winch

Is this like what you have? The reviews are pretty good.

Yes, those are what we carry. I highly recommend them. We only carry products that we are extremely happy with.

Ken

 

[Baby Grand]

With the setup you already have, if your trails are halfway straight for a 150', you could just use your tractor to pull out the logs using the blocks etc to change the direction of the pull to where the log is. I have done this with my utility ATV and my tractor. Not nearly as nice as using the gas winch but it works.

Ken

Thanks, Ken - I can and have done this in a few places. The problem that I encountered is that I lose sight of the log and can't see if it's getting hung up on something, threatening the gear, or just needs a little harder tug to get it up a rise. We have a lot that is mostly flat with 3 deep (20'), steep sided stream ravines. I can't get down into two of the 3 ravines. Of course, that's where most of the wood is. Plus, I can think of a lot of other uses for a good rope winch besides hauling firewood.

Jim

 

[pat32rf]

Thanks, Ken - I can and have done this in a few places. The problem that I encountered is that I lose sight of the log and can't see if it's getting hung up on something, threatening the gear, or just needs a little harder tug to get it up a rise. We have a lot that is mostly flat with 3 deep (20'), steep sided stream ravines. I can't get down into two of the 3 ravines. Of course, that's where most of the wood is. Plus, I can think of a lot of other uses for a good rope winch besides hauling firewood.

Jim

My lot is ALL up & down. Few years back I bought and installed a really cheap "remote starter" on my tractor but I have it wired so it plugs into the winch control (instead of the tractor starter). This way I hook up the cable, return to the tractor to engage the winch clutch and start back to the log while running the winch.
Hauled out two 45' trees today, one red oak, the other birch. Both pulls started out about 75' from the tractor, then got hooked to my "pulling plate" for the 300yd trip back to the woodshed...

 

[Chilly807]

Thanks, Ken - I can and have done this in a few places. The problem that I encountered is that I lose sight of the log and can't see if it's getting hung up on something, threatening the gear, or just needs a little harder tug to get it up a rise. We have a lot that is mostly flat with 3 deep (20'), steep sided stream ravines. I can't get down into two of the 3 ravines. Of course, that's where most of the wood is. Plus, I can think of a lot of other uses for a good rope winch besides hauling firewood.

Jim

No matter what you use for hauling, the skidding cone will help eliminate snags. I deliberately tried to hang up a few logs I pulled out using the cone last year, but both snaked out smoothly.

Sean

 

[SpringHollow]

I was surprised at how well the skidding cone works. I even pulled a >20" x 24' log up hill through a small berm and brush. Cone let it ride over the berm instead of digging in.

Ken