Looking for a decent generator.. 5000 watts

[Larry Caldwell]

I think it is more about signal noise and waveform than a surge or spike.

Most modern power supplies have dispensed with the transformer and just use solid state tanking circuits. They are almost totally insensitive to waveform, and will actually operate better on a square wave than a sine wave. They are sensitive to high voltage transients, which come from other equipment attached to the generator, not the generator itself. They are not very sensitive to input voltage, and will often run just fine from 60 volts to 240 volts.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

That maybe true but the science behind electricity tells a whole diff story. If the grid was fed with dirty power ( ie high Thd) everything would fry overtime. Use your gen daily and see what happens.

You have been listening to one of those "experts" who just talks to hear the wind blow. Waveform is irrelevant for modern electronics, though harmonic distortion might cause static in an older radio that still uses a power supply transformer. It will have no effect on equipment life. The thing that will kill your electronics is local transients, like a well pump shutting off. Use a surge protector.

Harmonic distortion is an important measure of the fidelity of audio equipment, but irrelevant for power applications.

 

[LittleBill21]

Most modern power supplies have dispensed with the transformer and just use solid state tanking circuits. They are almost totally insensitive to waveform, and will actually operate better on a square wave than a sine wave. They are sensitive to high voltage transients, which come from other equipment attached to the generator, not the generator itself. They are not very sensitive to input voltage, and will often run just fine from 60 volts to 240 volts.

Whats your opinion on Hertz? most psu's spec 50-60hz , gennys typically run 58-62 hertz, is it better to be on the lower side, or is there a margin in the hertz as well, which i assume there is.

do you have any docs to explain your comments, (just like reading this stuff)

 

[Industrial Toys]

HZ is really the last thing you have to worry about. Clocks may run fast or slow, no big deal. TVs used to use the 60 cycle for sync but I am guessing those days are over. A UPS may not be happy with the power and probably will switch to its batteries however.

 

[LittleBill21]

HZ is really the last thing you have to worry about. Clocks may run fast or slow, no big deal. TVs used to use the 60 cycle for sync but I am guessing those days are over. A UPS may not be happy with the power and probably will switch to its batteries however.

this is more of my concern, my entire house is on different (cheap) ups's they expect +/- .5 HZ, the generator doesn't get that close, thus they cycle on and off constantly. pretty annoying to be honest, my apc's allow changes to handle this, my cyberpower units don't which is annoying as they are not easy to bypass when there is an outage

 

[liberty2701]

You have been listening to one of those "experts" who just talks to hear the wind blow. Waveform is irrelevant for modern electronics, though harmonic distortion might cause static in an older radio that still uses a power supply transformer. It will have no effect on equipment life. The thing that will kill your electronics is local transients, like a well pump shutting off. Use a surge protector.

Harmonic distortion is an important measure of the fidelity of audio equipment, but irrelevant for power applications.

Never claimed to be an expert. However, all the info you ever need regarding thd is at your fingertips. When you read it does wonders for the mind. Thd does matter and will always matter unless the component has its own source of power. Why do Generator manufacturers dictate thd and whether or not they are safe for sensitive electronics. Maybe they are trying to sell snake oil? Better yet,instead of us debating the facts,the original poster can read all he likes about Thd and its effects on electrical devices by searching for it and finding his own conclusion. Then no more"experts" will need to chime in.

 

[kenmac]

Not sure who you spoke with but the only Generac portable with a thd of less than 5% are the Xp and inverter lines. I think you should do a follow up call to them and clarify.

Don't know.. I gave them the mod ,and ser #.. Suppose I could call and get someone else next time ,and get a different answer.. Don't know
I'll try to remember to call again this week.. If I get a different answer I'll report back

 

[TomSeller]

Most modern power supplies have dispensed with the transformer and just use solid state tanking circuits. They are almost totally insensitive to waveform, and will actually operate better on a square wave than a sine wave. They are sensitive to high voltage transients, which come from other equipment attached to the generator, not the generator itself. They are not very sensitive to input voltage, and will often run just fine from 60 volts to 240 volts.

I am very interested in in knowing more about this. This thread has me dreading a power outage since I have bought quite a bit of new electronics lately. Anything more you can tell us or point us to about this would be appreciated. On the surface it make sense, but I would like to understand more.

 

[Ford850]

Not sure who you spoke with but the only Generac portable with a thd of less than 5% are the Xp and inverter lines. I think you should do a follow up call to them and clarify.

If Generac told him "all of their generators are between 3-6 %", you both could be right. Maybe their worst ones are in the 5-6% range, and all their XP and Inverter models are less than 5% (3-4%).

 

[Clay45]

I purchased a Harbor Freight Predator 8750 / 7000W continuous and its never required more than 2 pulls to start manually. It has great reviews but I found it too heavy to move manually so I mounted it to a small Harbor Freight trailer and pull it to the house from my barn when I need it. Had a lockout connection wired to my load center on the back of my house and use a 240v 30 Amp connection and breaker. Can run one of my HVAC units, water well, water heater, downstairs lights or switch over to my upstairs at night keeping water heater and refrigerators going.

Its not automatic, runs on gasoline so I have to be able to feed it. But it gives me some ability to address a power outage and I have some convenient portable power around the place when I need it...when done, just cut the fuel petcock off and run'r dry. Change oil often. I installed one of those valve/hose drains so its easy to change oil just like the new mowers have and it works great. Don't plan to add a battery but its rigged for elec start if you wish. And they may have a smaller lighter model to suit your needs as well.

So far I've very pleased with it.

 

[liberty2701]

If Generac told him "all of their generators are between 3-6 %", you both could be right. Maybe their worst ones are in the 5-6% range, and all their XP and Inverter models are less than 5% (3-4%).

I called and verified. The GP line which is their most popular gen is 10% or higher. Like I said earlier the only portable model with an acceptable Thd for electronic devices or thd sensitive electrical components are the Xp and inpverter lines. All of their home standby units are less than 5%.

 

[Ford850]

I called and verified. The GP line which is their most popular gen is 10% or higher. Like I said earlier the only portable model with an acceptable Thd for electronic devices or thd sensitive electrical components are the Xp and inpverter lines. All of their home standby units are less than 5%.

Thanks for following up.

 

[TomSeller]

Any easy way to measure the THD?

 

[3930dave]

Any easy way to measure the THD?

Power Meter | Power Monitor | Power Meters ? Fluke® Corporation

Fluke is usually a safe bet.

Not as pricey as in days past, but probably still outside of what most people want to spend - unless you earn a living with 'em.

Rgds, D.

 

[TomSeller]

Power Meter | Power Monitor | Power Meters ? Fluke® Corporation

Fluke is usually a safe bet.

Not as pricey as in days past, but probably still outside of what most people want to spend - unless you earn a living with 'em.

Rgds, D.

I guess I should have said "any inexpensive ways to measure THD? ".

 

[newbury]

Well just looking for a device I ran across this:

Power requirements for
furnaces
Furnaces, unlike consumer electronics,
do not have a built-in
regulated power supply (which
would add about $1500 to the
cost). They rely on a clean, consistent
sine wave to power an
IFC (integrated furnace control)
and establish clock timing and
synchronization of integrated
circuits.
A simple IFC may only
control furnace functions such
as turning line or low voltage
switches on and off, controlling
fan-timing circuits, and monitoring
flame rectification circuits.
More advanced IFCs also control
voltage to igniters, ECM and VFD
motors, and variable frequency
drives.
Even the simplest IFC may not
operate when supplied with poor
quality power.
Furnaces have a minimum
basic electrical requirement for
voltage, frequency and power
quality. The accepted standard
is:
120 V ｱ 10 % (108 V to
132 V)
60 Hz frequency ｱ 3 % (57 Hz
to 63 Hz)
Harmonic distortion <5 % THD
Furnaces supplied with voltages
that have harmonic distortion
greater than 8 % THD may not
operate or will operate with
possible damaging consequences
for the electronic circuitry and components.

from http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/Download/Asset/3497420_6112_ENG_A_W.PDF

Think I might need cleaner power for my $3,000 furnace.

 

[kenmac]

I called and verified. The GP line which is their most popular gen is 10% or higher. Like I said earlier the only portable model with an acceptable Thd for electronic devices or thd sensitive electrical components are the Xp and inpverter lines. All of their home standby units are less than 5%.

Ok,, I had a chance to call back today.. This time the person put me on hold for quite some time.. Said they were trying to contact a generator tech.. After a while on hold, the person tells me, that don't have that info available for my generator model. I have no idea why they wouldn't have that info available to them.. My generator is probably 8 -10 yrs old

The problems I have read about the new / inverter generators, is with the GFCI breakers tripping when connected to the house.. To prevent this.. the jumper wire from the neutral and ground within the generator wiring would need to be removed..
it is said some generator manufactures will instruct you how ,and where to find this jumper wire, while others won't

 

[liberty2701]

Ok,, I had a chance to call back today.. This time the person put me on hold for quite some time.. Said they were trying to contact a generator tech.. After a while on hold, the person tells me, that don't have that info available for my generator model. I have no idea why they wouldn't have that info available to them.. My generator is probably 8 -10 yrs old

The problems I have read about the new / inverter generators, is with the GFCI breakers tripping when connected to the house.. To prevent this.. the jumper wire from the neutral and ground within the generator wiring would need to be removed..
it is said some generator manufactures will instruct you how ,and where to find this jumper wire, while others won't

What model do you have?

 

[buickanddeere]

To prevent neutral current from flowing in the ground conductors .

 

[kenmac]

WEN 2,000-Watt Inverter Generator-56200i - The Home Depot

Cheaper than the northern tool branded power house generators