Looking for my first pocket gun.

[Willl]

Here in Washington it's a little easier.

If you've been a good boy for 5 years, 1500 in lawyer fees and 30 days later,,,

(edit; WA info, www.washrecord.com - Clearing Criminal Convictions & Restoring Firearm Rights )

 

[TripleR]

In that link from TripleR above, it states only violent felons are prohibited from possessing body armor, so that leaves alot of non violent felons out there that can ??

JB

That is a link to the federal laws, state laws can make theirs more restrictive, but not less. I hate to get too fr off into the weeds on legalese.

 

[Soundguy]

Yes, some states enhance the penalty for use of a vest in the commission of a crime and I think in some it is a crime to own one with the "intent" to use it in a crime; always hard to prove "intent", but it can be done.

A local PD tested Viet Nam era flak jackets hoping to save a few bucks and they didn't work on handgun fire.

The Presidential Pardon can only be given for federal offenses and not state, I had to post this on a forum the other day, it is on the DOJ website.

big differences in flak vests and true Bullet 'resistant' vests.

most carriers tell you exactly what they are rated for.

I have a nam era flak vest and in no uncertain terms, it is for fragmentation.. IE.. stoping schrapnel.. not projectiles.

My BP vests from 2nd chance are kevlar and with a k30 are fine for most handgun calibers up to the 44 / 45 but not the wildcat magnums, but do include us mi .30 ball ( carbine ).

with a k47 insert they are rated for 5.56, & 7.62. direct straight in shots may pass fragments thru the plates but should be retained within the armor vest.. at angles, the plates should prevent penetration altogether.

I have another late issue soft body armor vest, military has to be 90 or newer... lists some specs it conforms to.. none of which I can remember off hand.

The old nam era vest I beliee may be balistic nylon.. it's weight would make me believe so..

I know in florida, if you wear a mask while comitting a crime there is an extra penalty..

soundguy

 

[JB4310]

with a k47 insert they are rated for 5.56, & 7.62. direct straight in shots may pass fragments thru the plates but should be retained within the armor vest.. at angles, the plates should prevent penetration altogether.

soundguy

Man I can't imagine how that would be getting hit in the chest (with the armor) by a high powered rifle round. Would think the shock could still do serious damage?

JB

 

[Soundguy]

with 2 plates and some soft body armor under it to spread out the force...... I bet it will be better than none at all.

I know some leo's that have been shot. a couple were hit in a trauma plate and it merly knocke dhtem back and left a red mark on the chest. a couple got hit in the vest and fell down, it left large bruises. neither had penetration.. mind you these were from handguns.

 

[5030]

big differences in flak vests and true Bullet 'resistant' vests.

most carriers tell you exactly what they are rated for.

I have a nam era flak vest and in no uncertain terms, it is for fragmentation.. IE.. stoping schrapnel.. not projectiles.

My BP vests from 2nd chance are kevlar and with a k30 are fine for most handgun calibers up to the 44 / 45 but not the wildcat magnums, but do include us mi .30 ball ( carbine ).

with a k47 insert they are rated for 5.56, & 7.62. direct straight in shots may pass fragments thru the plates but should be retained within the armor vest.. at angles, the plates should prevent penetration altogether.

I have another late issue soft body armor vest, military has to be 90 or newer... lists some specs it conforms to.. none of which I can remember off hand.

The old nam era vest I beliee may be balistic nylon.. it's weight would make me believe so..

I know in florida, if you wear a mask while comitting a crime there is an extra penalty..

soundguy

Maybe for a FMJ. A green tip Nato, no way.

 

[Soundguy]

I believe 'ball rounds' , as stated earlier was what all the ratings referred to.. IE.. FMJ.

hollow point would be even less effective

and well.. balistic and standard light armor peircing.. well.. what do you expect light armor piercing to do to light armor ????

lets face it.. steel core, deep penetration, less expansion.. etc...

looking at it:

SS109 round was chosen for standardization. The SS109 used a heavier bullet with a steel core and had a lower muzzle velocity for better long-range performance, specifically to meet a requirement that the bullet be able to penetrate through one side of a steel helmet at 600 meters


and even worse.. the new replacement:

M855A1 round has a copper core with a 19-grain (1.2 g) steel "stacked-cone" penetrating tip.

 

[BMIGear]

Maybe for a FMJ. A green tip Nato, no way.

Generally speaking, even a Green Tip is stopped by most III and IIIA plates on a normal day. We've shot all types of plates here, and a VERY large portion of GT fail to completely pass though the plate, but will spall the wearers side. And thats including that annoying little 5grn Penetrator they stuffed in the nose of the thing. There are rounds out there that will easily defeat the plates, but thankfully, GT isnt one of them.

Man I can't imagine how that would be getting hit in the chest (with the armor) by a high powered rifle round. Would think the shock could still do serious damage?

JB

The few folks I know that have taken solid, straight on hits in the plates will tell you they thought someone hit them with a baseball bat or sledgehammer. It took the wind out of them but they went right back to working during that event. After the event, they had alot of bruising and soreness, wide eyes, a cool story and a new found respect for cover and concealment. The area and mass of the plate coupled with the big kevlar pillow(vest) underneath disapates alot of the energy. Add more weight (mags, grenades, iPod, etc) and it helps even more. On angled hits (if the stars are aligned and youre lucky that day) sometimes you wont even know that you took one to the plate/armor. Yes, that does happen :thumbsup:

 

[TripleR]

Interesting information. One of my sons has three vests, one from when he was in the Navy doing contraband interdiction, one from when he was with the 82nd Airborne and one when he was a ERT (SWAT) member. The ones provided by the PD didn't have the level of protection he wanted and the military ones were too bulky. They all have the inserts, but I really don't know much about them. My other son has a couple as he helped train executive protection and some law enforcement, so he had to wear stuff similar to theirs.

I went to some presentations and demonstrations, but we didn't wear body armor, so I have no first hand experience.

 

[5030]

I believe 'ball rounds' , as stated earlier was what all the ratings referred to.. IE.. FMJ.

hollow point would be even less effective

and well.. balistic and standard light armor peircing.. well.. what do you expect light armor piercing to do to light armor ????

lets face it.. steel core, deep penetration, less expansion.. etc...

looking at it:

SS109 round was chosen for standardization. The SS109 used a heavier bullet with a steel core and had a lower muzzle velocity for better long-range performance, specifically to meet a requirement that the bullet be able to penetrate through one side of a steel helmet at 600 meters


and even worse.. the new replacement:

M855A1 round has a copper core with a 19-grain (1.2 g) steel "stacked-cone" penetrating tip.

With the availability of green tipped NATO rounds to the consumer, body armor is a mere 'marks the spot' attire. I have probably 1000 green tips because one, they are cheap and two, I want the Federal Brass for reloading.