Looking for some Pole Barn framing suggestions

[sdkubota]

Makes me wonder how anything got done "back in the day" before these engineers??

If done right, you can build your own trusses and not have a single of issues. I am 100% certain of that. I built my own for my pole barn. And dad has a machine-shed that has homemade trusses that has stood for about 60 years now. It most certainly CAN be done successfully

The science of engineering is to evaluate materials for strength and then place those materials to support a load safely. It isn't magic but it is based on science. Many backyard projects can be over built and not suffer failure but there is a waste of materials that weren't needed and didn't add anything to the required strength. Engineering identifies how much load any member may experience and what size member is needed to safely resist those anticipated loads.

Engineered lumber is 3 times as strong as what is found in the lumberyard. Engineered lumber is graded to prevent knots or other inherit lumber faults to be eliminated in critical tension members. Yours might still be standing but I can gaurantee there have been 1000 collapse for everyone that doesn't. Not sure of your potential for snow in your area but will state you are living on a wing and prayer. Good luck!

 

[LD1]

The science of engineering is to evaluate materials for strength and then place those materials to support a load safely. It isn't magic but it is based on science. Many backyard projects can be over built and not suffer failure but there is a waste of materials that weren't needed and didn't add anything to the required strength. Engineering identifies how much load any member may experience and what size member is needed to safely resist those anticipated loads.

Engineered lumber is 3 times as strong as what is found in the lumberyard. Engineered lumber is graded to prevent knots or other inherit lumber faults to be eliminated in critical tension members. Yours might still be standing but I can gaurantee there have been 1000 collapse for everyone that doesn't. Not sure of your potential for snow in your area but will state you are living on a wing and prayer. Good luck!

I would rather overbuild something and waste a little material than waste my hard earned money just to have someone else make it and tell me it wont fail.

The 30' span scissor trusses I made for my pole barn would have cost me $100ea. I made all of them (14) in a day with only $30 in material for each one.

How many structures being built today with this "engineered" crap is going to last as long as barns built 100+ years ago???

When we had our blizzard in 2008, My barn handled it just fine. But I know of one that collapsed about 5 miles down the road with "engineered" trusses. Go figure.

Let me venture a guess here: In your opinion, you probabally think that someone building a simple 10 x 12 yard barn should probabally hire an engineer to approve his 2x6 rafters and to make sure they are "engineered" boards??

 

[sdkubota]

I would rather overbuild something and waste a little material than waste my hard earned money just to have someone else make it and tell me it wont fail.

The 30' span scissor trusses I made for my pole barn would have cost me $100ea. I made all of them (14) in a day with only $30 in material for each one.

How many structures being built today with this "engineered" crap is going to last as long as barns built 100+ years ago???

When we had our blizzard in 2008, My barn handled it just fine. But I know of one that collapsed about 5 miles down the road with "engineered" trusses. Go figure.

Let me venture a guess here: In your opinion, you probabally think that someone building a simple 10 x 12 yard barn should probabally hire an engineer to approve his 2x6 rafters and to make sure they are "engineered" boards??

A short span building is not the same as a long span and doubt you would need any engineering. If you have such contempt for the profession, you should consider taking "engineering" out of your occupation listing. You do realize using that term without the proper accredidation and licensure is illegal.

 

[LD1]

A short span building is not the same as a long span and doubt you would need any engineering. If you have such contempt for the profession, you should consider taking "engineering" out of your occupation listing. You do realize using that term without the proper accredidation and licensure is illegal.

Wow, somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. I am all for doing things safely. BUT, we dont need to have an "engineer" stamp on everything. This whole website is about doing things yourself. And building trusses is something that can be DIY IMO. AND if done correctly, there is NOTHING wrong with it. I dont know the OP's skills, and I am sure he knows the risks. If he is comfortable doing it himself, I am not going to argue with him.

AS to your last comment There is nothing illegal about what I have. Even if I didnt have proper accreditation, it dont matter. This is a free public forum. I could tell you I'd a nuclear scientist if I wanted and it still isnt illegal. There is more than one type of engineer FYI.

And I will make this promise: If I give ANYONE on here bad advise, and whatever they are doing fails because of my advise, I will refund 100% of what they paid for my advise

 

[mx842]

A pole barn does not really stiffen up solid until you put on the siding. Once your siding is on and screwed properly the building will be able to withstand the normal movements from heat, cold, wet and dry periods with no problems. The most common problems with foundations are with shrink swell type soils where the soil expands when it is wet and contracts when it dries out. You don't have this problem but depending just how close to the surface the shale material is could present problems especially in traditional pole barn construction. If the hard shale is very close to the surface you may have no choice but to drill holes and install anchor bolts or drill holes large enough to put rebar in and seal around. Either way can be done easy enough with a good hammer drill and masonry or rock bit. Just pouring a 12" round pier on top of the shale probably wont cut it unless you anchor it somehow to the shale. I guess also, if the shale is solid enough you could even anchor the post directly on top of the shale if you could find the right kind of anchor bolts either way you still need to connect what ever, either concrete pier or post directly sitting on the shale with a good connection point to hold it in place.

 

[john_bud]

If I don't want to pay several thousand dollars to have 20+ holes drilled through the shale for the 6x6's, and I don't want to put in a complete foundation with footing, what are my options? Can I sit the poles on footer blocks directly on the shale and compensate for the poles only being 2 feet in the ground with extra diagonal bracing in between the 6x6's ? Or is sheathing the whole building in osb required to get the same stability as a buried pole?

I
-H.

Just had one put up. The crew that did it had a hydraulic 24" auger on a track skid steer. Like you, we have soil then shale. They had no problem. I just posted a thread on the build. 36x48x12. They were in and out in 2 days. The build used laminated posts. I think it's both cheaper and more stable than 6x6's.

I was going to build mine myself but time crunch happened. But I found a crew that was basically only 500-1000 more than the parts costs. And they did a vastly superior job of it than I would have and in a tiny fraction of the time!

 

[john_bud]

And I will make this promise: If I give ANYONE on here bad advise, and whatever they are doing fails because of my advise, I will refund 100% of what they paid for my advise

Always good to see someone standing behind their free advice!

Like you, my advice is 100% guaranteed*.







*Guaranteed to be advice! Not right. Not smart. Heck, probably not even safe!

 

[LD1]

Always good to see someone standing behind their free advice!

Like you, my advice is 100% guaranteed*.







*Guaranteed to be advice! Not right. Not smart. Heck, probably not even safe!

:laughing: BINGO :drink:

 

[BeezFun]

Never, never, never attempt to "build" your own roof trusses. Lumber used in them is engineer rated and comes from old growth forests. If you go to the lumberyard and build your own they will collapse. I am 100% certain. Just a tip.

Not sure where you're getting your info, but I'm looking at the truss specification sheet for my building and it's made from SPF No 2 lumber, same stuff they sell off the shelf at Menards. These are 32' trusses designed for 25psf snow load. I think you're mixing terms in a way that is confusing. Lumber carries a grade stamp (like SPF No 2), but I don't know what "engineer rated lumber" would mean in this context because the grading is done by the timber industry. Engineers do provide a stamp indicating that the design of the truss meets some set of building codes for certain conditions and doing those calculations is probably beyond the ability of the average homeowner. But saying that you can't buy the same material that is used in trusses is not correct. I would agree that designing a long span truss probably falls in the same category as doing your own brain surgery, in both cases you'll save money but the outcome may not be as planned.

 

[sdkubota]

Not sure where you're getting your info, but I'm looking at the truss specification sheet for my building and it's made from SPF No 2 lumber, same stuff they sell off the shelf at Menards. These are 32' trusses designed for 25psf snow load. I think you're mixing terms in a way that is confusing. Lumber carries a grade stamp (like SPF No 2), but I don't know what "engineer rated lumber" would mean in this context because the grading is done by the timber industry. Engineers do provide a stamp indicating that the design of the truss meets some set of building codes for certain conditions and doing those calculations is probably beyond the ability of the average homeowner. But saying that you can't buy the same material that is used in trusses is not correct. I would agree that designing a long span truss probably falls in the same category as doing your own brain surgery, in both cases you'll save money but the outcome may not be as planned.

Try structural grade then but it doesn't matter...you have two forum members that gave everyone a warranty because theirs haven't collapsed yet. Print out that post and keep it in your safe.