Making hay with 30hp tractor

[Doyle670]

I have looked high and low, far and wide for an answer to my question. I have read thru forums, websites and anywhere else I thought might help.

Does anyone know if you can make hay with a 30hp tractor? Some people say yes, some people say no. Here is my situation and please feel free to offer any advice necessary.

I'm currently raising beef cows anywhere from 5-10 that I buy in March/April and sell usually in October. I make a little bit of money but realize if I had a hay supply(preferably my own) then I could play the beef market better to my advantage both by being able to buy earlier and sell later, plus I could sell the extra hay as well as have more cows.

So I have 15 acres of flat hayfield that I'd like to hay myself. Problem is I only have a 30hp tractor, a 1980 Ford 1900. If my 1900 could make hay then I could get away pretty cheap both on equipment as well as having hay for myself.

I was thinking of using a sickle bar, a rake and a smaller square baler(like a new holland 68). I'm not looking to pull a hay wagon too, just bale up the windrows and let the bales drop on the ground, then pick up with a wagon later.

I know many people say I won't be able to bale, but I've seen 8n's run at 3/4 throttle bale under the same exact conditions i'm looking at.

I do realize they have 1 extra PTO hp than I do but I have better gear range options and can run full throttle for hours on end.

If I can hay with my 1900 then i'm looking at about $2000 to buy all the equipment I need to hay the 15 acres. If I can make this work a couple years then I could upgrade to another tractor down the road. I'd like to put up 600 bales for myself and then sell the rest and near me at a price of $3.50-$4.00, I could make out well.

I understand newer and bigger may be fun, but i'm all about simple, always have been, so if it takes me the whole month of july to hay the 15 acres, i'm fine with that. I realize with better/bigger equipment I could hay it all in 3 days.

Thanks to anyone that responds.

 

[CTPhil]

In my opinion 30 HP is plenty. My one concern would be that a 30 HP compact isn't as heavy as a utility model and may require extra care on slopes with the baler.

The tractor in my signature runs all of my hay equipment and is 32 HP, it never seems to work very hard making hay, even on 15 degree slopes.

 

[charleyfarmall]

That combination will work. Early balers with their own engines had much less HP. The tractor will rock back and forth a lot but that's ok. It becomes an issue if you have hills because the baler can weigh as much as the tractor and the tail can wag the dog with disasterous results if you are traveling down hill.

 

[CTPhil]

It becomes an issue if you have hills because the baler can weigh as much as the tractor and the tail can wag the dog with disasterous results if you are traveling down hill.

Yes, that is really my only concern. Having 4WD or reasonably flat fields would mitigate that.

 

[Doyle670]

These few answers are better than any of the answers I've got so far. Yes the 2 fields I'm looking to bale are very flat.

I've asked a few farmers and a bunch of other people including family and some dealers.

The farmers I asked wouldn't give me an answer, they just ask why would you want to use such a small tractor/baler. Family said yes because my great grandfather, and grandfather used an 8n for everything on their family farm from the 40's thru the 80's. And dealers say no because they have a nice shiny new tractor sitting outside that "would" run a baler.

My tractor with weights is at about 4000lb. Any idea what an older square baler will weigh in at? I know I tow 2000lb loads of firewood on an old dump trailer down out of my hilly woods without issue.

Thanks again for the responses.

 

[HarryVanderpool]

, but I've seen 8n's run at 3/4 throttle bale under the same exact conditions i'm looking at.

I do realize they have 1 extra PTO hp than I do but I have better gear range options and can run full throttle for hours on end.

As far as I know, an 8N has 23 hp.
Here is a shot of my 2N pulling a McCormick #45 with no problems.

 

[Doyle670]

Yeah I just reread the specs. Ford claimed they had 27 but when tested they were actually at 23hp. And I know my grandfathers tractor when they were running a baler was nowhere near 23hp because it was no where near brand new. At that time it probably had 5,000 hours on it so it was probably actually at about 18-20hp at the pto.


Now what about a haybine? I've never looked into this because of the need for a hydraulic remote. I could put one on my tractor fairly easy but haven't considered it. The reason I ask is at the past few auctions some of the sickle bar mowers were going for higher than what an older solid haybine was going for.

 

[Doyle670]

Hey Harry, is there a setting I have to change in order to see your pic?

 

[CTPhil]

I had a haybine but sold it, it didn't like rocks and was hard to get into some fields. I mow just as fast and drying is also just as fast with a sickle bar, plus less downtime and cleaner mowing of field edges. I'll never go back to a haybine.

These few answers are better than any of the answers I've got so far. Yes the 2 fields I'm looking to bale are very flat.

IMO you're good to go.

 

[Doyle670]

Alright thanks alot. I'll be looking to get my equipment at the March auction.

Who knows if another mint Massey 1085 is there and goes for $4100 like the last auction maybe i'll just upgrade then.

 

[bucktaker]

it will not be fun....been there done that baling hay with sickle bar, rake, Jd 24t baler with a mf 35... still have it all if you are near ohio and interested

Take my advise buy a bigger 2wd tractor , haybine, rake, and round baler . you can do it your self with no additional labor.

 

[Doyle670]

Thanks, bucktaker, yeah it definitely isn't easy work but luckily I have a retired father that is just itching to do something. He's been out of the farm routine for a few years but would love to run machinery like this. Like I said and my uncle has always said, when you have a field or 2 to do and have most of the summer to do it, it really isn't bad. He now stresses every summer because of the 5,000 square and 500 round he has to have done before fall, with machines that are going to break, and in between rain storms.

Feel free to pm with prices for the sickle, rake and square baler...

 

[DJ54]

We made hay with a little IH 240, and Super C Farmall for about 12 years, pulling a JD 14T baler, and wagon that would hold approx. 60 bales. Made around 500 bales a year. No not fast, but a LOT faster and easier, than when we doodled it, and stacked by hand.

I still have all of the above, and make about 40 squares, to take horse camping.

My now IH 656, haybine, tedder, and 335 JD round baler makes it seem like another quantum leap with the haymaking.

Probably as modern as I'll ever get, unless I replace the ole' IH 990 haybine. I just make 50-75 round bales for my horses, depending on the year, and hay yield.

 

[rankrank1]

I have looked high and low, far and wide for an answer to my question. I have read thru forums, websites and anywhere else I thought might help.

Does anyone know if you can make hay with a 30hp tractor?....

You must not have searched too much - There is literally thousands of hours worth of reading on this subject with careful searching on forums like this one and Yesterday's tractors. Search under tractors like Allis Chalmers B, C, CA. Farmall A, B, C, and H. Ford 8N, 9N, 2N, Jubilee, NAA, 600 etc. John Deere B, 40, 50, etc.

In short: Lots and lots of hay has been put up with under 25 hp and NO LIVE PTO. You will hear both success stories and horror stories.

The key is picking a low capacity baler that will properly work with your limited hp. While new balers are available that are especially made for tiny tractors they are pricey ($15k plus new). So the cheap alternative is too look at balers from the late 1950's and early 1960's for when the farmer's common tractor was small. While very affordable a vintage baler will be 40-50 years old and will likely require some tinkering to keep working so you better be mechanically inclined. Modern square balers from the mainstream manufacturers are usually high capacity and therefore need lots of hp so are not good choices.

Here is my Kubota L285 compact tractor (26.5 max PTO hp at WOT, only around 23 PTO hp with throttle set for 540 PTO rpm). My Kubota does not have live PTO either. For comparison sake this tractor is a tad smaller than your Ford 1900 and a tad bigger than a Ford 1700. It would sorta be a Ford 1800 if Ford had built one - LOL. The baler is a 1960 New Holland 65 compact baler.

These are actually the wife baling and raking and she conveniently spray painted herself out of my pics - she hates cameras!

 

[Sawdustsmb]

Doyle,
I started baling in the late 50's with a nh 68 baler w/ 15hp wisconson motor with a wagon behind on hills pulled with a Super H w/ maybe 28 hp. We also conditioned hay with a Farmall F-12 (12-15hp maybe!) I would suggest a 7' haybine on your tractor if you could find one. Amount of hay on the fields matters also - ours run 100-125 bales/acre. You may also want a tedder. I now use a 489haybine, tedder, 55 rake, JD 336 kick baler, and have pulled it all with a Ford 4000. A 7600 or TL80a is now being used on the baler except when they are broke - but that is another story.

Bob

 

[rankrank1]

Doyle,
...I would suggest a 7' haybine on your tractor if you could find one....

IMOP: haybines or mower conditioners are typically not well suited to using on a small compact tractor. They are extremely heavy, they are offset 7-9 foot off the center line of the tractor draft which creates a weird pull, and most importantly they and have an enormous amount of tongue weight which makes them rough for a compact to physically handle safely even if there is adequate PTO hp to actually operate it. None of this is an issue on a normal farm tractor of sufficient size and weight, but can be an issue on a lighweight compact.

Cutting with a compact is best handled with an old school traditional sickle mower if wanting to go cheap route. Of course a compact tractor can easily handle a small pull behind vintage crimper on a seperate trip - but that means another pass has to be made over the field. Alternatively drum mowers seem to work extremely well although I have never used one but they are available for compacts and reasonably affordable - although too pricey for my hobby operation.

I have ran a 9 foot Hesston 1120 mower conditioner (sickle cutter with built in crimper rolls) and there is no way that I would hook it up behind my little Kubota just due to the extreme size and weight of it.

 

[MHarryE]

According to Tractor Data, your Ford is almost exactly the same weight as a Farmall H and it tested at 26 PTO HP, the same as the belt horsepower of he H. Dad sold NH and the Hayliner 67 or 68 with a Farmall H or M was very popular in our area. The only problem was no live PTO on the H or M and low gear was pretty fast for large windrows. We got a Case 400 Super Diesel with live PTO for pour own haying, about 300 acres per year back then. Only thing I can think of being a problem is your Ford has a small Shibaura diesel that probably runs 2500 rpm at PTO speed while the H is a larger displacement engine turning only 1650 rpm at PTO speed. The numbers say it should not be a problem but you never know for sure until you try. When we started selling mower conditioners it took an M to pull a mower/crusher combination. The H could pull either the mower or the crusher but not both. That could indicate a 7 foot Haybine would be a bit much for your tractor. Anyway that is how we did it 50 years ago.

 

[wmonroe]

You will be fine as long as you take your time. Growing up we always had a couple cows and one or two horses and my dad baled his own hay. The only tractor he had (still has) is a little Kubota B8200 which is around 15 pto hp i think. He used all old equipment sickle mower, rake (3pt & pto driven), crimper, and NH baler converted from pony motor to pto. He has some very hilly ground and we had to be very careful with the rake and especially the baler. It wasn't nearly as fast as the neighbor with his cabbed Case and kicker baler with a wagon behind but we baled a lot of hay over the years.
I have very fond memories of working out in the field with my dad, started helping him when i was barely big enough to lift a bale and helped him every year after that. It's a good feeling getting out in the field and baling hay.

 

[Doyle670]

You must not have searched too much - There is literally thousands of hours worth of reading on this subject with careful searching on forums like this one and Yesterday's tractors. Search under tractors like Allis Chalmers B, C, CA. Farmall A, B, C, and H. Ford 8N, 9N, 2N, Jubilee, NAA, 600 etc. John Deere B, 40, 50, etc.

Well I've found a bunch of topics for the older tractors but the problem is I know they changed how they rated the hp on newer tractors. I couldn't find any topics where a newer(>70's) 30hp tractor was running a baler.

I guess I really just have to try it out. Worst case scenario, I'll have to buy a bigger tractor. Hopefully not.

 

[flusher]

You can do it. People have used small tractors like a Farmall Super A to pull a 2-twine small square baler like a JD 14T or like the one I have--a Massey Ferguson 124.

Here's what I use on my 10 acres (flat pasture)

Baler--MF124 2-twine small squares - $2000 (bought it right out of the field-previous owner baled 30 acres the day before)

Sicklebar mower--MF 31 (7 ft)- $550 at auction plus $200 new parts

Rake--JD 350 pto driven, 3pt hitch style - $800