Man killed trying to separate PTO shaft with tractor

[Industrial Toys]

There are very detailed accident reports available on line. Make for very interesting if not sad reads.

I'm guessing the PTO had little to do with the accident.

When there is a traffic accident reported, you don't get the Detailed Police report. Curious why people think such accidents like this merit otherwise.

It was an "accident" involving a tractor, and the mans gone.

 

[Cat_Driver]

Thanks Cat, I was wondering many of the same questions that a good reporter could have passed on to edify the tractor market that surely would be interested in Michigan!

RIGHT? Me too!
Amazing how there are so many know it alls that can read a few ambiguous lines in a badly written article and have all the answers.
Not so with people that actually want to know intricate details to actually learn something to prevent a similar disaster.

 

[Cat_Driver]

Being an older Oliver tractor I suspect it was connected to the drawbar, and yes the older tractors had light front ends and would pull the front end off the ground and tip over backwards. Many a farmer was killed when plowing and the moldboard would catch a stump or something, and over they would go.

Playing Columbo here:

1) If it was connected as you say wouldn't the drawbar, PTO shaft, and implement actually prent the tractor from "flipping" over backwards as that is where the buddle of equipment is?
2) Wouldn't the drawbar be the first thing to hit the ground like a "wheelie bar" on a dragster and stop the flip?
3) With the drab bar connected how can the tractor flip backards with a hardened steel shaft preventing the backward motion like a wall brace when building a house?

I could go on but I'm boring myself!

 

[radios1]

older tractors don't have ROPS, and it did take a number of deaths to get them to be standard equipment.. a few more deaths.. https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/safety/258450-man-killed-pulling-tree-over.html https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/safety/186819-man-killed-tractor-accident.html https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/safety/40059-man-killed-while-driving-tractor.html https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/safety/27355-man-killed-tractor-rollover.html and this one too.. https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/rural-living/187202-ga-man-tractor-killed-africanized.html common sense needs to be used at all times!..

 

[Industrial Toys]

More speculation. Doing a job like this alone, is much more dangerous and prone to freak accidents. That FACT is much more important than establishing the geometry and tractor weight.

 

[CobyRupert]

Playing Columbo here:

1) If it was connected as you say wouldn't the drawbar, PTO shaft, and implement actually prent the tractor from "flipping" over backwards as that is where the buddle of equipment is?
2) Wouldn't the drawbar be the first thing to hit the ground like a "wheelie bar" on a dragster and stop the flip?
3) With the drab bar connected how can the tractor flip backards with a hardened steel shaft preventing the backward motion like a wall brace when building a house?

I could go on but I'm boring myself!

Mixing what we know with some speculation:
According to the story, the PTO shaft was chained to tractor and a tree. There was no mention of an implement that could stop a backwards flip.
Being chained, the chain would pivot at it's connection at the tractor, so the PTO shaft also would not prevent a backwards flip.

We don't know if the chain was connected to a drawbar, or what type of drawbar if it was.
It could of been a cross-drawbar on the 3 point hitch that wouldn't act like a wheelie bar, and if raised too high would flip tractor backwards.

If it was a lower standard "swinging" drawbar, this could act like a wheelie bar, but only:
1) If long enough,
2) If the ground under it was hard enough that the drawbar doesn't just dig in (i.e. drawbars aren't not wide enough to support a tractor, and not dig in on most soils)
3) If tractor has enough upward momentum it could overcome any wheelie bar effect (if there is any).

More speculation. Doing a job like this alone, is much more dangerous and prone to freak accidents. That FACT is much more important than establishing the geometry and tractor weight.

Knowing the geometry is important.
It's only a FREAK accident if you don't know the geometry.
(To me) it's not an accident when someone hooks a chain at a point above the rear axle. The results are totally predictable, but to a lot of people it would be an "accident". (Again, we don't really know what happened).
It's like the other thread on TBN a few days ago from the guy who added a lot of weight ABOVE the center of gravity on his tractor then "accidently" rolled it over (on what looked like relatively flat ground) and has no clue what happened.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

flipped over means flipped over. Prolly at a vector until upside down.

Remember Flip Wilson?

 

[goeduck]

There are very detailed accident reports available on line. Make for very interesting if not sad reads.

I'm guessing the PTO had little to do with the accident.

When there is a traffic accident reported, you don't get the Detailed Police report. Curious why people think such accidents like this merit otherwise.

It was an "accident" involving a tractor, and the mans gone.

I regularly recall safety related things I read here on TBN when I am operating my tractor, chainsaw or whatever. I cannot tell you how many times. Safety awareness saves lives and that is why many of us want to learn by understanding what happened.

 

[cqaigy2]

Yes wht does "flipped" actually mean. "Flipped" is a vague and ambiguous term so YES please do explain EXACTLY how the tractor "flipped" inquiring minds want to know. .

Did it flip 45 degrees Vertically
Did it flip 90 degrees Vertically
Did it flip 80 degrees Vertically
Did it flip 180 degrees Vertically
Did it flip 45 degrees Perpendicularly
Did it flip 90 degrees Perpendicularly
Did it flip 80 degrees Perpendicularly
Did it flip 180 degrees Perpendicularly
Did it flip 45 degrees Horizontalv
Did it flip 90 degrees Horizontal
Did it flip 80 degrees Horizontal
Did it flip 180 degrees Horizontal
Did it flip 45 degrees Uprightly
Did it flip 90 degrees Uprightly
Did it flip 80 degrees Uprightly
Did it flip 180 degrees Uprightly
Did it flip 45 degrees To the left?
Did it flip 90 degrees To the left?
Did it flip 80 degrees To the left?
Did it flip 180 degrees To the left?
Did it flip 45 degrees To the right?
Did it flip 90 degrees To the right?
Did it flip 80 degrees To the right?
Did it flip 180 degrees To the right?

used to express mild annoyance

 

[shooterdon]

CobyRupert, thanks for explaining things clearly.

I never considered trying to pull apart a bent PTO shaft as a possibility.

BTW, where I live there are a lot of poor people so I can see this happening to someone trying to save a buck. New PTO is likely $200 or so, but that is a lot of money if you do not have it.

One of my buddies has no rear brakes on his truck but drives it anyway. Tires on his car are shot. I drive if we go somewhere.

Great advice on how to pull with a tractor...the draw bar is where it is for good reason.

 

[CobyRupert]

Derailing this thread a bit farther:

"Flipping" versus "rolling"
Sometimes they can be synonyms.
....but if your a gymnast, an aerial skier, or pool diver, they are NOT synonyms.

Context is important. Example: "Going around the turn, the top heavy truck flipped into the ditch." This likely means it rolled on its side.

If you're PULLING something with a tractor that causes the tractor to "flip", it's hard to imagine that it rolled over on it's side; or did anything but flip backwards.

 

[k0ua]

Derailing this thread a bit farther:

"Flipping" versus "rolling"
Sometimes they can be synonyms.
....but if your a gymnast, an aerial skier, or pool diver, they are NOT synonyms.

Context is important. Example: "Going around the turn, the top heavy truck flipped into the ditch." This likely means it rolled on its side.

If you're PULLING something with a tractor that causes the tractor to "flip", it's hard to imagine that it rolled over on it's side; or did anything but flip backwards.

Bet a dollar he was hooked to the tractor side somewhere other than the drawbar under the chassis of the tractor. Something like the top hole of the top link. (yes I have seen idiots do that) or maybe one of those 3 point "drawbars" with it raised up or who knows. I have hooked chains to immovable objects and the drawbar and have never ever raised my tractors front end off of the ground. I don't think it is possible on my tractor unless you do something very stupid. On that old high wheel Oliver if you hook up high it is VERY possible. No ROPS to save you either. I am not a fan of old high wheel tricycle unsafe tractors.

If the PTO shaft was twisted so that it was wedged together anyway, what would you do with it if you did manage to pull it apart? it would still be useless junk.

 

[MossRoad]

I regularly recall safety related things I read here on TBN when I am operating my tractor, chainsaw or whatever. I cannot tell you how many times. Safety awareness saves lives and that is why many of us want to learn by understanding what happened.

Me too. However, you're only going to find the details in a detailed accident report, not a news story, for many reasons. One being the story comes out as soon as it's known, and accident investigation/reconstruction takes time, so you won't get that in a news story that's produced within hours of an incident. You'll have to wait for a detailed accident report, if it's ever done. It might be so clear to the sherif, family, insurance, parties involved, etc..., that no further investigation will ever be done.

 

[MossRoad]

Bet a dollar he was hooked to the tractor side somewhere other than the drawbar under the chassis of the tractor. Something like the top hole of the top link. (yes I have seen idiots do that) or maybe one of those 3 point "drawbars" with it raised up or who knows. I have hooked chains to immovable objects and the drawbar and have never ever raised my tractors front end off of the ground. I don't think it is possible on my tractor unless you do something very stupid. On that old high wheel Oliver if you hook up high it is VERY possible. No ROPS to save you either. I am not a fan of old high wheel tricycle unsafe tractors.

If the PTO shaft was twisted so that it was wedged together anyway, what would you do with it if you did manage to pull it apart? it would still be useless junk.

The shaft sections might not have been twisted, and just rusted together. I'll avoid the speculation of what exactly happened, as it's just a guess, however, you're guess probably has pretty good odds as to what happened. If I had to make a bet, between that and other choices, I'd pick that.

Anyhow, the man is dead. Thoughts to his family and friends.

 

[Jstpssng]

Just for future reference; hooking onto the front and pulling backwards is one way to avoid this kind of accident.

 

[two_bit_score]

What drama was stressed in this story?

It was pretty clear and concise.

It could have been a much better article if the reporter would have said why it turned over. In fairness to them they probably had no idea that bit of information would be so necessary to TBN readers.


TBS

 

[MossRoad]

It could have been a much better article if the reporter would have said why it turned over. In fairness to them they probably had no idea that bit of information would be so necessary to TBN readers.


TBS

Who was on the scene to make that qualified determination?

 

[two_bit_score]

Me too. However, you're only going to find the details in a detailed accident report, not a news story, for many reasons. One being the story comes out as soon as it's known, and accident investigation/reconstruction takes time, so you won't get that in a news story that's produced within hours of an incident. You'll have to wait for a detailed accident report, if it's ever done. It might be so clear to the sherif, family, insurance, parties involved, etc..., that no further investigation will ever be done.

I regret the lost opportunity the station had to do a better report on tractor safety. I'm sure this is not the only time they have covered an accident of overturned tractors. Many lives could be saved by better awareness of the cause of these accidents.


TBS

 

[two_bit_score]

Who was on the scene to make that qualified determination?

Doesn't matter. That should be the reporters job.

Who
What
When
Where
WHY


My high school journalism class discussed that many times.



TBS

 

[buckeyefarmer]

It's like the other thread on TBN a few days ago from the guy who added a lot of weight ABOVE the center of gravity on his tractor then "accidently" rolled it over (on what looked like relatively flat ground) and has no clue what happened.

Must have missed that thread. I did read one a few days ago where a guy put his tractor on it's side because he hit a hidden obstacle on a slope. He knew why it happened, since he explained it......

I separated a pto shaft once, not too many yrs ago, by chaining to a tree and pulling with the tractor. I now keep all pto shafts inside, out of the weather.