Comparison Massey GC1715 vs. Kubota BX2670-1

[AxleHub]

Greetings,
I am now considering the Massey GC 1715 sub compact vs. a Kubota Bx 2670-1 (both new product) .

My question is . . . how does anyone find out about the GC1700 series actual features and benefits? Every important thing I learned came from 1 youtube item or reading TBN posters and 1 test ride I did . . Not from 2 dealerships info . . not reviews or company literature or website.

1. What implements and attachments are available for the Massey GC1715 beyond fel, mmm, and a front blade?

2. Iseki engines . . how do they compare to yanmar and kubota engines?

3. I've listed below some things I discovered by deep digging . . what else or where else do I find info?

I like:
a. Dual hydraulic pumps . . Good thing
b. 54 and 60 inch decks
c. Comfortable driver layout /viewability.
d. Can run lower rpm
e. Cast iron thru out not cast iron/cast aluminum
f. Flow forward engine cooling just like kubota (good thing)
g. Driver's deck floor is open and easy laid out.
h. fully tier 4 and easy engine compartment access.
I. Differential lock.

What can others add . . I found nothing else. To be a competitor to Kubota it has to have some implements, quick hitch and quick attach abilities, etc. etc.. does it have any of those things?

Hope everyone has lots of input because reviewers, dealers, and brochure & company websites haven't. And it seems like a very nice unit to consider.

Thanks.

 

[TSO]

Greetings,
At the very last second of product decision making . . I relooked at the Massey GC1700 series brochure I had relegated to the "not in consideration" category. Why the relook?

Well certainly the brochure or Massey website didn't cause it. But rather some undisclosed simililarities to my planned 2 choices. And now I've read what I can find and had a test drive too.

My question is . . . how in the world does anyone find out about the GC1700 series real features. Every important thing I learned came from 1 youtube item or reading TBN posters . . Not 2 dealerships . . not reviews or company literature.

1. What implements and attachments are available for it beyond fel, mmm, and a front blade?

2. Iseki engines . . how do they compare to yanmar and kubota?

3. I've listed below some things I discovered by deep digging . . what else or where else do I find info?

a. Dual hydraulic pumps . . Good thing
b. 54 and 60 inch decks
c. Comfortable driver layout and viewability.
d. Can run lower rpm
e. Cast iron thru out not cast iron/cast aluminum
f. Flow forward engine cooling just like kubota and some yanmar
g. Driver's deck floor is clean open and easy laid out.
h. Its fully tier 4 yet easy engine compartment access.
I. Differential lock.

What can others add . . I found nothing else. To be a competitor to Kubota it has to have implements, quick hitch and quick attach abilities, etc. etc.. does it have those things?

Hope everyone has lots of input because reviewers, dealers, and brochure & company websites haven't. And it seems like a very nice unit to consider.

Thanks.

1) Virtually any quick attach implement can be used if you add SSQA (skid steer quick attach) plates to the loader. You will need to go aftermarket or have a shop make them. They will pin onto your loader ends, but then quickly connect to any SSQA front implement.

2) Iseki builds the whole machine. Iseki is a large Japanese company that has been in business for nearly a century. AGCO, who owns Massey (and many, many other companies) contracts with Iseki to build many of their tractors to their specs. You will find very few complaints regarding Iseki built Massey's, including the engines, which are top notch. The Iseki TXG series (not sold in US) is the Massey GC equivalent.

3) nothing wrong with your observations ... The Massey is a good tractor. It offers more hydraulic flow and faster hydraulic response. No reason to NOT choose one, unless you like something else better. Pretty much all of the modern tractors are good now, so go with whichever one you personally like, and which one has a dealer you can work with if needed.

Good luck.

 

[AxleHub]

1) Virtually any quick attach implement can be used if you add SSQA (skid steer quick attach) plates to the loader. You will need to go aftermarket or have a shop make them. They will pin onto your loader ends, but then quickly connect to any SSQA front implement.

Good luck.

I guess what I'm surprised to find is that Massey doesn't seem to have any implements. Dealer was looking up on his listing . . Didn't find a front snowblower or broom . . Just a front blade. So no mid pto mount option ???

And the loader bucket does not appear quick mount oriented either.

Certainly in other parts of the country people are buying the GC1700 series . . but both dealers in this area seem like they just started having them . . but both dealers are large.

Thanks for any input posters have to offer.

 

[TSO]

I guess what I'm surprised to find is that Massey doesn't seem to have any implements. Dealer was looking up on his listing . . Didn't find a front snowblower or broom . . Just a front blade. So no mid pto mount option ???

And the loader bucket does not appear quick mount oriented either.

Certainly in other parts of the country people are buying the GC1700 series . . but both dealers in this area seem like they just started having them . . but both dealers are large.

Thanks for any input posters have to offer.

Accessories and aftermarket support is still relatively new for those small SCUT sized machines... Massey does offer a mid mount mower so there is a mid PTO present, and likely should also be offering a front mount blower. if you want more options available for the loader, get yourself an aftermarket set of SSQA plates and you will have unlimited options for upgrades.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

The definitely do have front mount blowers and brooms. Massey's website could use some improvement. You need to look at their implements page. Click on each type of attachment you are interested in, and there will be a table giving you compatibility information. Would be nice if you could just search or select a particular tractor model, and get a complete list of compatible equipment...

 

[jocola]

These are the two models I'm considering as well.

After a lot of research it seems to me that the MF is a little more on specs (lower rpm's, two dumping cylinders, more hydro flow, etc).

But my sense is that what you get with the BX is the DNA of Kubota and its subtle engineering priorities, which can often only be understood after lengthy experience with a machine.

Not that MF is a slouch when it comes to engineering or design - just that they're going to be different operating experiences and Kubota has the most celebrated track record in the world of SCUTs, so that is something to respect.

The problem is that a prospective buyer doesn't have time to spend on each machine in different situations to appraise them fully. And so we're left with competing specs (which often aren't the most important thing) and marketing by the companies to guide us.

So .... if there is anyone out there who has seat time on these two models - or any two evenly matched MF's and Kubota's - please - share your wisdom!!

 

[TSO]

These are the two models I'm considering as well.

After a lot of research it seems to me that the MF is a little more on specs (lower rpm's, two dumping cylinders, more hydro flow, etc).

But my sense is that what you get with the BX is the DNA of Kubota and its subtle engineering priorities, which can often only be understood after lengthy experience with a machine.

Not that MF is a slouch when it comes to engineering or design - just that they're going to be different operating experiences and Kubota has the most celebrated track record in the world of SCUTs, so that is something to respect.

The problem is that a prospective buyer doesn't have time to spend on each machine in different situations to appraise them fully. And so we're left with competing specs (which often aren't the most important thing) and marketing by the companies to guide us.

So .... if there is anyone out there who has seat time on these two models - or any two evenly matched MF's and Kubota's - please - share your wisdom!!

I have owned Kioti, LS, and now Massey. My close friend has had a Kubota in the same size as my Kioti (Kioti ck20 vs Kubota B2920), and a Kubota in the same class as my LS & Massey (my LS xr4041/47, & Massey 1648 vs his L3540)...this is our experience:

We both put about 250 hrs on our small tractors. My Kioti had the steering shaft assembly replaced due to a blown seal at 50 hrs, and a loader o-ring leak a bit later on. He had two issues with his loader in that time, I believe a leaking cylinder, and something with the valve.

Then in the last two years, I put 200 hrs on the LS machines with absolutely zero problems, well except for a blown headlight fuse twice, which I then discovered that the fuse was underrated so a higher rated fuse fixed that... And I have put 420+ hrs on the Massey and it has been absolutely flawless.

In the same time he's put about 300 hrs on his L3540 ... Had a loader issue early on, then a blown loader hose, and then had to have the tractor literally split in half for a small part that broke on the internal hydraulic pump.

Now, I'm not saying that to speak negatively about Kubota. Every tractor can have problems and they do build good machines. But, I don't think they are the "gold standard" that some people claim. It can't be just coincidence that he's had two brand new big-Orange tractors in the last couple years and each has had issues. I liken Kubota to Chevy (or GM in general) ... Just because they sell more cars doesn't mean they have better quality (which GM obviously doesn't) than other companies that they outsell.

In my personal experience, for reliability I'd rate the Massey #1, the LS #2, and the Kubota & Kioti tied for third.

That's my personal experience ... May not be everyone else's. But, I certainly don't buy into Kubota being any "better" for overall reliability than the other tractors you may look at...especially when you consider their trumped up pricing. Now market saturation and dealer exposure? Absolutely. Kubota wins that. And again, I'm not saying they are bad tractors ... But my Massey has been a champ.

 

[AxleHub]

I believe tractor equipment has to be evaluated by sizing category . . not name. 8 or 9 years ago I saw Kubota already commanded the sub compact market. But if you looked in bigger product market categories where the l series or m series were . . They were a small player.

At the same time 7 to 9 years ago . . there wete big name companies on the bx and b sizes that just weren't worth a darn.

Today the competition and product quality of the sub compact and compact markets is much changed and companies that were weak before have higher quality better designed units and can compete with kubota.

Sadly, so far my studies show massey has a very nice tractor . . but I'm failing to see beyond the tractor side in scut product.

1. But lets be specific with a specific example. Front end loaders for the GC1700 series. Every unit I've seen has a DL 100 loader. BUT the website implement listing doesn't even show a Dl100 . . it shows a DL95.

2. Another specific example . . Front Snowblower. Website list says its a 2360. But anywhere you look for NEW 2360s for sale . . It shows them for the GC 2400 and Gc2600 . . no GC1700 even mentioned.

3. In my present study . . a Massey 2360 snowblower is advertised at $3695 plus mid pto kit and hitch. Whereas the Kubota bx snowblower is more than $1,000 cheaper and adapts to other implements as well. Can't find a Massey broom etc. etc..

A good scut tractor with few, uncertain, and expensive implements is risky.

It appears the GC1700s came out 1.5 years ago. So how come it seems like they were just introduced and unprepared. 3 examples highlight my concerns.

I'm really tempted to go Massey because of the GC1715 tractor . . I just don't want to be left on an expensive stranded island.

By the way . . If a person has. to convert to skid steer compatibility to have options . . then clearly Massey does not understand the scut marketplace.

I'm sure open to other opinions . . but one of them is not skid steer compatibility on the front end.

 

[TSO]

I'm sure open to other opinions . . but one of them is not skid steer compatibility on the front end.

Why is that?

 

[AxleHub]

Why is that?

Whether you look at LandPride or Woods or several others . . Or Yanmar or Kubota . . Good implements for scut tractors needs to be designed for scut tractors . . not for the general tractor or skid steer market. That is precisely why Kubota did so well from 1999 to 2009 . . they understood that implements for scut benefit are not for the general market. Its why LandPride and Woods have specific product labeled and developed for scut needs . . their catalogs highlight those products.

By the way . . designing for the general market is why so many scut tractors failed miserably to capture market share . . the manufacturers did not design and build for that market's needs and viewpoint.

 

[TSO]

Hmm ok... I don't completely agree with you but it's your thread so I'll not argue your supposition.

Regarding the DL95 vs DL100 ... Dealers install the loaders at the dealership. They'll use up all of the remaining old stock first unless you request the new model. And yes, AGCO has been slow to publish loader specs for the new ALO-Quicke loaders ... Not sure why.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

As I had previously stated, the Massey website needs some improvement, and with todays internet based society, they could probably help their sales with more information about products and pricing. Let me see if I can address your 3 specific items from above.

1. MF recently switched loader/backhoe manufacturers. See this thread. The change happened sometime recently, so there is mixed stock out there. A reputable dealer can help you find one version or the other if you really want. Just know that the DL100 has been discontinued and stock will be dwindling to nothing.

2. If you head over the the implements page, and click on snowblowers, you'll see the 2360 front mount snowblower listed as compatible with the GC1700 series tractors.

3. Not sure where you are getting your pricing. The 2360 blower should be ~$3500 INCLUDING the subframe and mid--> front PTO adapter. The Kubota 50" front mount blower complete lists ~$3200, slight cheaper, but not the $1000 you stated. Hydraulic or electric shoot rotation/deflection are options for additional cost on both. Not sure wha you mean by "and adapts to other implements as well." The sub-frame on both is the basis for front blades also, and maybe the broom.

You also mentioned you could not find the brooms. Once again, go to the implements page here:2330 Broom

I think the reason why you don't see SSQA mounts on the SCUT class tractors, is that they add weight to already low capacity loaders. In general skid steers have huge power and hydraulic flow in comparision to SCUT and even CUT sized tractors, and that huge power allows big, heavy, and strong implements to be used. A small skid steer bucket might weight 500 lbs, taking up most or all of the lower capacity of these little tractors. So, in general, having an SSQA loser on a SCUT sized tractor does not allow one to take advantage of the skid steer attachment market.

Wow, this post got long, so let me summarize. My impression is that you are disappointed with the Massey website, and therefor have a hard time considering their products. Kubota is the market leader in SCUT/CUT sized tractors. They were in the market earlier, sell more units, and have a larger availability of aftermarket attachments and such. BUT, Massey still sells a good product, and hopefully they will be able to improve their online presence. Remember, at one point in time, no company has a website...and many still made and sold quality products..

 

[AxleHub]

Greetings Fitz,

No . . My impression does not come as much from a poor website . . as it does from hugely poor brochures and summary line catalogs. All shiny and pretty and nothing of reasoning and examples of product capabilities. Maybe all else Massey is wonderful . . But the GC1700 series brochure is strikingly poorly prepared.

But its not just the website and lack of printed materials . . its watching the dealers looking up on the computer and not seeing the information either. With 15 minutes of looking . . they found the front plow . . no snowblower . . no broom . . . etc. etc.. By reading TBN and seeing 1 youtube . . I knew about the DL95 they hadn't any info on it. By me reading and reading I was telling 2 different large successful dealer locations about the really important GC1700 series features.

My point isn't to make fun . . my point is some people at Massey are falling down on their job. Products can be a superior design . . but if they don't get the support product effort and the PROPER marketing support effort . . . there aren't enough like me who will dig and dig to uncover the info that is needed.

Its silly to say it . . its ridiculous to say it . . .but its true . . . TBN is a far better resource for GC1700 series info . . . than is the company.

 

[TSO]

Greetings Fitz,

No . . My impression does not come as much from a poor website . . as it does from hugely poor brochures and summary line catalogs. All shiny and pretty and nothing of reasoning and examples of product capabilities. Maybe all else Massey is wonderful . . But the GC1700 series brochure is strikingly poorly prepared.

But its not just the website and lack of printed materials . . its watching the dealers looking up on the computer and not seeing the information either. With 15 minutes of looking . . they found the front plow . . no snowblower . . no broom . . . etc. etc.. By reading TBN and seeing 1 youtube . . I knew about the DL95 they hadn't any info on it. By me reading and reading I was telling 2 different large successful dealer locations about the really important GC1700 series features.

My point isn't to make fun . . my point is some people at Massey are falling down on their job. Products can be a superior design . . but if they don't get the support product effort and the PROPER marketing support effort . . . there aren't enough like me who will dig and dig to uncover the info that is needed.

Its silly to say it . . its ridiculous to say it . . .but its true . . . TBN is a far better resource for GC1700 series info . . . than is the company.

I think that Massey dealers focus more on large machine sales than compacts. That's what I see around here anyhow.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

AxleHub,

There is one statement I've seen consistently everywhere, and that is, go with the dealer you get the best service from, regardless of brand. If they can't give you confidence that they know their products features and accessories at least to some level, what would make you think they can service or repair your tractor if needed? Sounds like you had a bad dealer experience. I'm pretty confident, that if you visit enough dealers, you'll find a "bad dealer" from every brand.

My opinion is that most all the tractors out there are pretty good, people will prefer one over another for all sorts of reasons. It's a Ford vs Chevy type of thing. Could be a particular spec that they feel is important. Could be the ergonomics, one feels more comfortable to that person. Could be the color. Could be company history. Could be dealer experience (good or bad) that drives a person to make a particular decision. Who knows...

 

[AxleHub]

AxleHub,

There is one statement I've seen consistently everywhere, and that is, go with the dealer you get the best service from, regardless of brand. If they can't give you confidence that they know their products features and accessories at least to some level, what would make you think they can service or repair your tractor if needed? Sounds like you had a bad dealer experience. I'm pretty confident, that if you visit enough dealers, you'll find a "bad dealer" from every brand.
..

Greetings Fizik,

Well said and well reasoned. However 2 different dealers had the same issues . . and both dealers are larger and have great reputations.

As a specific example . . One dealer of Massey that has a product I like (GC1715) also sells Kubota. Their skills representing Kubota are highly knowledgeable and skilful. But if the information isn't available to them . . that's a manufacturer's fault.

My concern is . . I really see a number of benefits to the Massey gc1715 that competes with the kubota (my other choice). But most of that knowledge of its benefits did not come from the manufacturer's information (in any form).

Now here is a piece of information ive been unable to verify anywhere:
1. Cast iron engine giveshigher durability and longer life than cast iron block and aluminum heads.

2. Mower deck . All spindle assemblies are made of cast iron for greater durability versus competitors aluminum casted spindle housing.

I haven't read a review yet that talks about this at all. In fact I've only read one professional review on the Massey gc1700s and that was1.5 years old.

 

[TSO]

Please don't take any offense to this, but I think you are reading way too far into this comparison. I would say that all of the tractors in this class are built to compete with each other, and all will be relatively comparable in regards to capabilities and specifications. They all come with a warranty, some better than the others, so if you do have any problems at least you have the assurance of the problems getting resolved within the warranty period. What you really need to do is spend some time operating each tractor that you are considering, and draw your conclusions after you get actual seat time on each machine. That will tell you more then specifications or company rhetoric any day. Then, combine your personal preference for the tractor along with the feeling you get regarding dealer competence. if you feel that the dealer isn't well aware of specifications, but otherwise is equipped to handle service and warranty repairs if necessary, then that should suffice. But, if you feel that the dealer lacks competency because he is not well informed on the specific machines specifications, then factor that in to your own scale.

My Massey dealer also sells Kioti, but services any machine, new or old, that makes it into his shop. When I ask him specific questions related to my tractor, especially regarding service work, I find that he is not particularly knowledgeable about the details of the tractor. However, he has much more detailed engineering and mechanical information and knowledge on the Kioti tractors. I think the reason is, when I ask him about specifics regarding my massey, he tells me that he very very rarely gets any Massey's back into the shop for repairs, and always answers that he is not for familiar with this problem, or that problem, or that part of the machine, because he simply doesn't see them back in the shop for service. He does, however, see the Kioti's.

It's possible that the dealers you are visiting never do much more than sell the tractor... And then only see the owner back for scheduled maintenance supplies or trade ups.

Also, I don't think that the GC series are big money makers for MF, and don't seem to be a very high volume unit compared to larger models. But the BX machines on the other hand, are very common (due to exposure) and probably earn some nice profits for the dealers ... So the ate very familiar with the machines as they sell and service a lot of them.

Just a couple theories ...

 

[AxleHub]

Greetings TSO,

I certainly don't take any offense . . I welcome different viewpoints . . and yours was a good one.

However too often it seems users express that essentially all the units are good and very similar. But I find there are considerable differences and I find I'm trying to choose which features are most important to have or do without as a big part of the process.

I believe the new and developing market for scut and compacts . . . is a big wave of prospects who have never owned a tractor before . . they aren't farm oriented or interested . . and they have more challenging terrains to deal with than the previous majority.

As a result . . implement choices and engineering of them are far more significant than prior because "big or heavy" is not the big desire of this new prospect grouping and a reputation in farm equipment is not a qualifier like it once was for this new peospect grouping in my opinion.

 

[Citydude]

Hi Axle, I'm looking at a GC 1705 and wasn't impressed with the web site information as well until I spent a good part of an hour going through each tab. The information is there, it's just in areas that seem odd. It took me for ever to find the MMM information for the 1705. It's there, it's just "all over the page".

 

[art]

No skid steer QC? It is to heavy on these tractors and would take up to much lifting ability!!! Some manufacturers do have there own design of quick attachments for this size tractor although they are non-universal! Look for grease fittings on the loader for the bucket that are NOT exposed to damage from over loading the bucket!! Many manufacturers changed away from having them exposed to the top over a decade ago do to the damage and consequent failure of the fitting from being broken.