MF 135 In Frame Rebuild Advice

[Guoseph]

Hi Everyone,

New member here. Bought an old MF 135 along with some used farm implements as a package deal from an older gentleman who is getting a bit too old to use it. I thought I got a decent deal, but after getting home and spending some time with it it's in a bit sadder shape than I had hoped. The oil pressure is pegged at high and once it is warm there is smoke and oil coming out of the crankcase breather tube and the dipstick (and if you unplug the oil filler hole smoke will come out of that too). Oil and filter are fresh and it doesn't seem to be "making" any oil (volume of oil does not rise) leading me to believe at least there is no diesel or water getting into the crankcase. The tractor is not hard to start, even from cold (mid 40's ambient).

I'm not an experienced mechanic, tractor or otherwise, but from what I've been reading here a rebuild might be in order?

I don't have any way to hoist the engine so I'm hoping to avoid having to dis-assemble the front end and removing the engine to do the rebuild. I've seen some "In Frame" rebuild kits for sale, but cannot understand how I can possibly remove the pistons and cylinder liners without taking the engine off. Both the bottom half of the crank case and the cylinder block seem to be stressed members that connect the back end of the tractor with the front. Has anyone used an in frame kit and can you share how it is done?

I have the Agco shop manual, but it isn't exactly a "tractor repair for dummies" level book with detailed instructions, and haven't found step by steps online to give me the confidence to dive in. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Alex

 

[deerseeker001]

Welcome from Wisconsin

 

[Guoseph]

Thanks.

I think I forgot to mention. It's a Perkin's Diesel.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Alex that is the only way I ever rebuilt a tractor. Now if you are going to drop the crank you will have to break it apart. Pull the head was how we would pull pistons and sleeves.

Keep in mind a diesel that will start well hot or cold is NOT worn out compression wise in most cases. Many will blow oil out of the slobber tube by design. You might try Rotella 5W-40 T6 Synthetic and change it and filter about every 25 hours for a few times and see if that helps. We did that with our 1976 265 MF with the Perkins engine but it was a good engine after all of those years on dino motor oil.

Read up on the line of diesel additives from Archoil and see if any of them might be of interest.

Archoil, nano lubrication, reduce friction, reduce wear, lubricating greases, reduce energy cost, extend equipment life, latest in nano lubrication, lube,science,solutions,fuel,gas,diesel,,friction modifier, catalyst, combustion, motorsilk, lubrisilk

 

[Guoseph]

Alex that is the only way I ever rebuilt a tractor. Now if you are going to drop the crank you will have to break it apart. Pull the head was how we would pull pistons and sleeves.

Keep in mind a diesel that will start well hot or cold is NOT worn out compression wise in most cases. Many will blow oil out of the slobber tube by design. You might try Rotella 5W-40 T6 Synthetic and change it and filter about every 25 hours for a few times and see if that helps. We did that with our 1976 265 MF with the Perkins engine but it was a good engine after all of those years on dino motor oil.

Read up on the line of diesel additives from Archoil and see if any of them might be of interest.

Archoil, nano lubrication, reduce friction, reduce wear, lubricating greases, reduce energy cost, extend equipment life, latest in nano lubrication, lube,science,solutions,fuel,gas,diesel,,friction modifier, catalyst, combustion, motorsilk, lubrisilk

Thanks Gale for the tips. I'm having a bit of trouble visualizing it, but how do you get at the pistons and sleeves with just the head off? Wouldn't they still be inside the cylinder block? The cylinder block in turn seems to be bolted in the back to the transmission plate, that's the part I can't figure out how to take off without breaking the tractor apart. Right now the tractor spits so much oil from the dipstick once it warms up I have to use a catch pan below to keep leaving oil trails around the field.

P.S. I'm currently using Delo 400 15w40 but will give the Rotella a try.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Thanks Gale for the tips. I'm having a bit of trouble visualizing it, but how do you get at the pistons and sleeves with just the head off? Wouldn't they still be inside the cylinder block? The cylinder block in turn seems to be bolted in the back to the transmission plate, that's the part I can't figure out how to take off without breaking the tractor apart. Right now the tractor spits so much oil from the dipstick once it warms up I have to use a catch pan below to keep leaving oil trails around the field.

P.S. I'm currently using Delo 400 15w40 but will give the Rotella a try.

The oil pan (could be heavy cast) and head will be removed so you can drive up from the bottom side. Delo 400 is very good oil I understand.

If it was my tractor doing that I would change the oil and filter and add the Archoil 9100 additive or just go with new oil and the cleaner AR2300 see if your rings may be stuck. I am not big on tearing down own tractors that start and run OK. A $1500 rebuild will add little to the resell value but will make it sell faster. We got a lot of life out of just going with new rod bearings, rings and valve job but that was gas engines.

The AR 9100 might unstick your oil pump pressure relief valve IF that is the cause of your high oil pressure. Read about how Archoil is used in huge engines that may hold 100 gallons of motor oil in the crankcase. I just got some AR6200 but it will be warmer weather before I used the diesel tractors to know how much it helps gas/diesel engines. Nano technology sounds interesting to me.

Since you are planning a tear down I sure would look at how to get the old engine clean on the inside first just in case it would help with your issues or at least have a clean engine to rebuild.

 

[WilliamTO-35]

I haven't worked on the diesel version, but I suspect working on the gas version is similar. You can work on the engine, top and bottom, by supporting the tractor at three points; the two rear tires, and a block under the bellhousing or transmission. Then, you remove the front axle and wheels ,steering rods, and front sheet metal. You're left with the engine sticking out the front , with nothing in your way. You can then remove the cast iron oil pan ( structurally, the oil pan is not needed to support the engine at this point) , cylinder head, and if you like, you can then remove the engine (if you need to remove the crankshaft.)

 

[Sportsman762]

If it has a Perkins AD3-125 diesel in it then the rebuild kits are pretty inexpensive. If you are up to an engine rebuild then it might not break the piggy bank. You will need to figure out what type of rear seal it has to determine the correct kit.

 

[Masseywrench]

William TO-35 is correct on this procedure. You can scotch the tires or block up the axles either one. You will need the transmission in neutral as you will be turning the motor over several times, so that is why you scotch or block.

Once you get ready to separate the front end you are looking at 4 bolts going into the oil pan and then two nuts (one on each side) that lock onto studs coming from the frontend section that you are going to roll out of the way. You can attach a standard engine hoist (cherry picker) to the front section to balance it and roll the front away away several feet. I like to give myself enough room to walk between the two as you will be bouncing from side to side. Oil pan will have 4 bolts going into the bell housing that will have to come out. The rest are facing up into the engine block. If that pan has never been off the motor before and it still has the original sealant from the factory you may have to take a BIG punch or bar to break the seal.

I have seen motors do this many times before. Somewhere along the way, rain water got into the pipe and seized or glazed the rings. Put a fresh set of rings in it and some rod bearings and put it back together. You will need to find yourself a hone but not the ones with the long rectangle stones on it as it will be to agressive. I recommend getting one with the small balls on the end of the wires and just giving it a slight clean up of any rust and gunk that you are going to find. A good 1/2" power drill will be good enough to do this. If you cant see any of the hone marked left over, you might and mean cautiously might hit it with a set of stones for a brief second just to put some of the cross hatching hone marks back in it for the rings to make good compression.

If you bought implements to go with this, I figure you plan on using it. Therefore, do the right thing and freshen this tractor up and get many many more good years out of it.

 

[Guoseph]

I haven't worked on the diesel version, but I suspect working on the gas version is similar. You can work on the engine, top and bottom, by supporting the tractor at three points; the two rear tires, and a block under the bellhousing or transmission. Then, you remove the front axle and wheels ,steering rods, and front sheet metal. You're left with the engine sticking out the front , with nothing in your way. You can then remove the cast iron oil pan ( structurally, the oil pan is not needed to support the engine at this point) , cylinder head, and if you like, you can then remove the engine (if you need to remove the crankshaft.)

Thanks for the procedure.

 

[Guoseph]

William TO-35 is correct on this procedure. You can scotch the tires or block up the axles either one. You will need the transmission in neutral as you will be turning the motor over several times, so that is why you scotch or block.

Once you get ready to separate the front end you are looking at 4 bolts going into the oil pan and then two nuts (one on each side) that lock onto studs coming from the frontend section that you are going to roll out of the way. You can attach a standard engine hoist (cherry picker) to the front section to balance it and roll the front away away several feet. I like to give myself enough room to walk between the two as you will be bouncing from side to side. Oil pan will have 4 bolts going into the bell housing that will have to come out. The rest are facing up into the engine block. If that pan has never been off the motor before and it still has the original sealant from the factory you may have to take a BIG punch or bar to break the seal.

I have seen motors do this many times before. Somewhere along the way, rain water got into the pipe and seized or glazed the rings. Put a fresh set of rings in it and some rod bearings and put it back together. You will need to find yourself a hone but not the ones with the long rectangle stones on it as it will be to agressive. I recommend getting one with the small balls on the end of the wires and just giving it a slight clean up of any rust and gunk that you are going to find. A good 1/2" power drill will be good enough to do this. If you cant see any of the hone marked left over, you might and mean cautiously might hit it with a set of stones for a brief second just to put some of the cross hatching hone marks back in it for the rings to make good compression.

If you bought implements to go with this, I figure you plan on using it. Therefore, do the right thing and freshen this tractor up and get many many more good years out of it.

Yes I definitely want to use it

But the size of the project is rather daunting, before I started the research I was hoping that the cylinder block can be separated from the rest of the engine like a lot of gas car engines I've seen.

I wonder how much money I can get by selling the tractor in this condition and trying to buy one with less issues

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Actually if the tractor will start, run and do expected work it could bring a couple thousand dollars perhaps because it looks OK for the years.

If you get deep into the engine it can cost that much or more. I saw a nice looking 801 Ford the other day that I think still had factory paint job and they were asking $3200. Too business and too broke to think about trying to relive the pass.

Best of luck.

 

[CurlyDave]

Before you decide you need a rebuild, you might want to get a local mechanic to diagnose it.

If you have a trailer that moved it home, you can take it to the mechanic, or find one who will come to you.

This won't cost an arm and a leg, I am thinking $100-200, and you will have a much better idea what has to happen. No matter how you look at it, an in-frame rebuild is not as much fun as a picnic in the park, and isn't free.

 

[Guoseph]

Before you decide you need a rebuild, you might want to get a local mechanic to diagnose it.

If you have a trailer that moved it home, you can take it to the mechanic, or find one who will come to you.

This won't cost an arm and a leg, I am thinking $100-200, and you will have a much better idea what has to happen. No matter how you look at it, an in-frame rebuild is not as much fun as a picnic in the park, and isn't free.

I do wish I could get someone to take a closer look. I called the two closest MF dealers and one said they only do engine repairs at their central repair facility. The other said they won't really know what's going on until they really start digging in. With their service rates at $110 per hour, I'm thinking it ain't going to be a cheap diagnosis. As with any service engagement, I run the risk of being stuck with a tractor that's been taken apart, at which point I either suck it up and pay them for the repairs, or pay them to put my broken tractor back together.

Wish I knew some trustworthy tractor mechanics around, but I'm pretty new to the area.

 

[Guoseph]

Here is the first start of the morning, ambient temperature 37 degrees F, tractor parked outside.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Are you new to diesels?

Our 265 fires on first turn but it only has 1300 hours.

I would change the oil in it and add Archoil AR9100 and drive it.

The only way I would open up a running engine is if it was a tractor I grew up operating and wanted a piece of history.

Gas is much more simple in antique tractors used for light hobby farming.

Your tractor looks nice and sounded good to me. Diesels do smoke. You should hear see our 1983 JD start at that temp.

Wait for spring and run that sucker hard to prove or disprove it.

Based on your posts I say sell it if you can not mentally get OK with it. It is just a lot of metal but I think you may be over reacting at this point maybe.

Others may know this tractor better. Our 1976 265 MF is an awesome tractor. A 135 is an awesome tractor too typically.

 

[Guoseph]

Are you new to diesels?

Our 265 fires on first turn but it only has 1300 hours.

I would change the oil in it and add Archoil AR9100 and drive it.

The only way I would open up a running engine is if it was a tractor I grew up operating and wanted a piece of history.

Gas is much more simple in antique tractors used for light hobby farming.

Your tractor looks nice and sounded good to me. Diesels do smoke. You should hear see our 1983 JD start at that temp.

Wait for spring and run that sucker hard to prove or disprove it.

Based on your posts I say sell it if you can not mentally get OK with it. It is just a lot of metal but I think you may be over reacting at this point maybe.

Others may know this tractor better. Our 1976 265 MF is an awesome tractor. A 135 is an awesome tractor too typically.

I have a Dodge Ram 2500 with a Cummins Diesel. It makes a lot of noise but generally doesn't smoke

I'm ok with it smoking a bit and burning some oil, it is an old tractor afterall. I am ready to just use it except with this:

It'll drip a quart out of the dipstick and crankcase tube in an hour of of low load operation. If I can get the oil to stop coming out of all orifices at a steady drip when it gets warm I'd be happy. I don't really want all that Delo to end up in the field

Right now I think if I rig a chimney up to the oil filler hole and use it as a second exhaust it relieves enough pressure to keep the oil from pumping out, but that might seem like too much of a hack

I did order the Archoil, it's on it's way. Both 2300 and 9100.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

The Ford diesel drivers speak highly of AR9100.

Taking 10 seconds to start when cold could be due to a worn injector pump, dirty injectors perhaps but I never has a diesel that had an engine issue.

It must have a lot of blow by to get oil out of the dipstick and in fact it looks like the dipstick weld/crimp is broken because oil should not be able to get out there. How many quarts of oil do you put when doing a total change with filter?

Again maybe we have some that have seen this. Some blow by is normal but make sure it has the correct dipstick and see if you can borrow one to check it with. If you try to run it with the oil fill cap off what happens?

 

[Looking4new]

looks to me like you got wwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy too much oil in it.

 

[Guoseph]

looks to me like you got wwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy too much oil in it.

Actually right after I took the video I let it cool and the oil level shows below the min line. When I did the oil change I actually put in 6.0 quarts instead of 6.5 cuz I knew it was just going to make a rapid exit anyway.