MF 165 knocking

[DaButcher]

Purchased the MF 165 from a family friend for salvage value. Perkins Diesel that has a knock like someone is tapping with a hammer. Appears to be a small amount of engine oil the the coolant also, but not visa versa. Seller says it is a 1974 model. If the engine is worth repairing it will also need brakes to make it comfortable to use. If I learn to appreciate this tractor like many of you on here she may get a nice restoration. I have her stripped down to the point of fuel tank is ready to come off.

What do you guys think? I'm thinking rod bearing or wrist pin. Oh yea, good chance it was ran hot. The coolant gauge does not work, it has a new radiator hose and real purdy green coolant.

 

[Knifer]

Purchased the MF 165 from a family friend for salvage value. Perkins Diesel that has a knock like someone is tapping with a hammer. Appears to be a small amount of engine oil the the coolant also, but not visa versa. Seller says it is a 1974 model. If the engine is worth repairing it will also need brakes to make it comfortable to use. If I learn to appreciate this tractor like many of you on here she may get a nice restoration. I have her stripped down to the point of fuel tank is ready to come off.

What do you guys think? I'm thinking rod bearing or wrist pin. Oh yea, good chance it was ran hot. The coolant gauge does not work, it has a new radiator hose and real purdy green coolant.

sounds like a cracked head or blown gasket hard to tell with out breaking it down. The knock could be a lot of things as well. I would tear the engine apart and check it out before doing alot of restoring. Go from there and let that be the deciding factor.

 

[The kid]

First think you need to do is goto AGCO Parts Books and purchase the service and parts manuals, you might as well get the operators manual and have the whole set. These will aid you if you decide to brake it down. If it's something like a bad head, you can find good ones at salvage yards all over the country. Is that a flowmaster on the exhaust stack?

 

[shona13]

g,Day DaButcher.

Make sure there is plenty of oil in the sump ,start the engine and have a look at the oil pressure ,if the oil pressure is low it is most likely a bearing ,main or big end It is pretty difficult to give an accurate opinion without hearing it ,If say the knock is coming more from the mid to upper part of the engine then yes a gudgoen /wrist pin bearing.

You would find the 165 a very handy tractor and looking at the pics it looks like it would be worth overhauling the engine.
Generally where possible I use genuine parts in all of my Massey repairs mainly from the fact that i give warranty and using non genuine parts create problems down the track.

I am not saying that non genuine parts are not quality and it may suit you to go along that road this would be a decission only you could make.

Generally providing the main elements of the engine ,the crankshaft ,cylinder block and cylinder head are all Serviceable Perkins engines are very reasonable to overhaul.
This is all I can offer ,keep us all posted and post some pics.
happy Days .
Hutch.

 

[flyingcow]

Looking at that pic, makes me miss my MF180 i sold. Those Perkins are a nice running motor. Just overall a nice sized tractor for the $$$'s. Nice hp, light weight, walks across soft ground very nice.

I had a complete set of manuals, repair and the whole works. Priceless to have. I thought they were easy to understand too. No computer codes to read, go to to love it!

 

[DaButcher]

I apprecitae the replies.

shona13 ..........I don't know how accurate the oil pressure gauge is, but it is almost pegged out when it starts. I do think the knock is high in the block. I also like OEM parts when reasonable, just seems there is a better chance for quality. Is my thinking correct that the pan can be removed without splitting the tractor? As for as pics, I will take plenty so share. Might do a video before teardown so you can hear the knock.

It may be November before I get it tore down. When I decide to repair then I'll get the proper manuals. Thanks for the link The kid.

Best case for me would be one bad rod with no crank or head damage, then I would not hesitate to in-frame the rest of the engine and that would highly influence me to continue with a moderate restoration and fix whatever else needs fixin.

 

[DaButcher]

Is that a flowmaster on the exhaust stack?

Hmmm, it may be. Possible this is a 100hp plowing demon.

 

[shona13]

G,Day DaButcher.

Yes you can remove the sump without removing the front axle ,you have to remove the STUDS that attach the front assembly to the engine two each side only,support the weight of the tractor from around the clutch housing area and IMPORTANT do not allow the weight to come down on the two studs that are left holding the front axle assembly on or YOU COULD BREAK THE HOUSING$$$$$$$$$$.

It is by far in the long run and safer to remove the complete front axle assembly.

The first thing to do is remove the bonnet and the fuel tank ,siphon the fuel out first ,Much easier to handle then undo the fuel pipe from the isolation tap and the return line at the front of the tank ,then take the complete tank frame and tank of in one piece ,if you look under the tank you will see the rubber tank mounts you want to remove all at once ,NOTE: when removing the front axle assembly install wooden wedges between the Swiveling axle beam and the front axle housing this makes it a lot easier and safer to deal with the assembly when relocating it ,use a long Pinch bar ,lever about six foot long is good and push it inside the hollow front axle swivel pin then get someone to help ,holding the bar and keep the assembly UPRIGHT dont let it lean back or forward and when you get it away from the work site rest the bar on a stump or something STABLE leaning the assembly slightly towards the front so that it wont tip back ,for safety sake you should secure the lot with rope or something strong enough to handle the weight the rest is easy and you have something to work on at a nice working height, IMPORTANT: Make sure if you are working say inside a shed or a restricted access area that you consider the fact that you will at some time need to get the engine out possibly using a chain block and a trolley so give yourself plenty of room,make it easy, easy is good,and dont forget the clutch when you have gone this far.

Happy Days.
Hutch.

 

[leveled]

i had a 165 that sounded like that and it was in the transmission not the engine.

 

[DaButcher]

i had a 165 that sounded like that and it was in the transmission not the engine.

Interesting, did you figure that out before engine disassembly? If so could you explain how? The knock appears to go away when I crack the injector line that goes to the rear cylinder.

Hutch that is good info. Based on your explanation I will remove the front axle assembly.

 

[shona13]

G,Day DaButcher.
Maybe leveled done two jobs for the price of one ???.
Yes so now you know that it is most likely number four gudgeon or Big end bearing providing the engine has not been run for to long and with a bit of luck the crankshaft could be o.k.
happy Days .
Hutch.

 

[leveled]

Interesting, did you figure that out before engine disassembly? If so could you explain how? The knock appears to go away when I crack the injector line that goes to the rear cylinder.

Hutch that is good info. Based on your explanation I will remove the front axle assembly.

no It took me a while to figure it out untill I pulled of the transmission top cover to find that one of the gears was missing two teeth. At first it was really faint knock then it got worse no matter what I did to the tractor it was always there I ended up selling it in three pieces! to bad i dont still have it I would have sold you the engine. i loved that tractor it was a beast.

 

[DaButcher]

With a serial number of 9A 145013 tractor appears to be a 1972 model, not 1974. I have not found the engine serial number yet, but this page MF100Part2 says the "updated" diesel has exhaust on the right and mine is on the left so at this point I think this tractor has a AD4.203 engine. Detroit factory is indicated because of the lights being fender mounted instead of on the grill. Hope I don't bore you guys with this little bit of research.

 

[art]

I've seen several Perkins that the knock was actually a bad injector!!! Yes they sounded like rod bearings out. The first one was torn apart by a shop and they didn't catch it till it went back together and they had it running. The second in our shop was caught right off and by moving the one injector to another cylinder the knock went with it!!!

 

[DaButcher]

I've seen several Perkins that the knock was actually a bad injector!!!

Thanks for that art.......easy enough to eliminate before tearing into the engine. Do you know what the pop pressure is on these injectors?

 

[shona13]

G,Day DaButcher .
The injector setting is 175 Atmospheres ,that is if you are replacing the nozzles .
the test /setting pressure on a new injector is 185 Atmospheres.
May I suggest that unless you have a calibrated injector test rig good, If you dont have I would suggest taking the injectors to a Diesel fuel service shop.
Ooroo.
Hutch.

 

[DaButcher]

Thanks Hutch!

I will swap the injectors around first to see if that may be the issue. If they need rebuilt there is a great old German guy that is not to for away who does outstanding rebuilds on injectors and pumps.

 

[DaButcher]

I did swap the injectors tonight, knock did not move.

 

[DaButcher]

Anyone want to take another guess at the source of the knock after watching the video?

MF 165 Knocking - YouTube

 

[DaButcher]

teardown in progress

jackpot