Mig or stick?

   / Mig or stick? #41  
To all the proponents of MIG....

Are you referring only / mainly to using gas? What are your thoughts about using flux-core wire?

I am a simple DIY level welder and have only ever used stick, and an el-cheapo machine. I am interested in elevating my welding and MIG is one of the considerations.

Besides the gas vs flux question, how significant is the quality and size of the actual machine?

Thanks
Ken
 
Last edited:
   / Mig or stick? #42  
This is the information that people need, the reason they豎*e consulting the forum. People dump on stick welding first of all, because it has been surpassed in utility (40 years ago?) by the MIG, yet there逞エ always a few forceful forum posters insinuating that stick is the 騾覇al welder -gotta learn stick or yer a poser. While they can clearly see others (who obviously know better) pretending stick the better process but using MIGs more for a variety of good reasons. When is the last time you saw a commercial mfd trailer with stick? 1980? Its been a LONG time. There are grandkids in that time.

Attitude causes the backlash. Insecurity causes 谿ソttitude ? Newby welder needs neither of these impediments. Newby welder should buy a MIG, learn how to use it to make good welds, and start on their projects.

Again, I only claim that mig, stick or tig is the best for someone based on what they want to do with it.

One size does not fit all in my opinion.
 
   / Mig or stick? #43  
Again, I only claim that mig, stick or tig is the best for someone based on what they want to do with it.

One size does not fit all in my opinion.

MOST likely a guy who buys a MIG first will get projects done soonest. Which often enhances his economic situation (stuff gets fixed). Which is satisfying. Then he can buy more welders and have more fun.

Learning all three is the best, if a guy has a “need” for more tools.:thumbsup:
 
   / Mig or stick? #44  
MOST likely a guy who buys a MIG first will get projects done soonest. Which often enhances his economic situation (stuff gets fixed). Which is satisfying. Then he can buy more welders and have more fun.

Learning all three is the best, if a guy has a “need” for more tools.:thumbsup:

I feel like you are trying to be argumentative, I have no interest in that so I'll bow out of the discussion.
 
   / Mig or stick? #45  
Something else that needs to be considered is what types of material are you going to be welding. Are you primarily dealing with clean shining metal or old metal that can be cleaned to a new metal surface, or are you primarily welding metal that even after hitting it with a grinder would still classify as dirty rusty metal due to being thin and having rust pits.

What I deal with primarily is lawnmower decks that just can't be cleaned to the standards of what mig/tig/flux core need to make a good solid, weld without porosity or contaminates in the weld pool, but is too thin to weld with stick unless you are really good.
 
   / Mig or stick? #46  
What rods would you recommend a beginner start on?

The guy teaching me mentioned 6010 and 7018. However, the machine he recommended (Lincoln MP210) won't run 6010. It runs 6011 fine and, I'm told, there is very little difference between 6010 and 6011.

Thoughts?

If the MP has enough open circuit voltage to start 6011, It will start 6010 as well. My experience with the 210MP is that it will not run either one effectively. Nice machine otherwise. There are only a few of the new multi process 115/230v units that will run 6010.
 
   / Mig or stick? #47  
What are your thoughts about using flux-core wire?
Ken here on the west coast of the United States structural welding took a big hit after the North Ridge earthquake in California. Now if you do any seismic code welding you have to use dual shield, or T-8 self shielded flux core wire. All T-8 wires require a CV welder. On the job we never got a welder under 400-AMPS. The majority of the wire we ran was 5/64-inch, and sometimes 3/32-inch.
At one time I had 46 different structural welding certs. Never failed a welding test with self shielded flux core wire.
For T-11 wire, it is very hard to beat Hobart's 21-B. Or Lincoln's NR-212.
 

Attachments

  • Best NR 212.jpg
    Best NR 212.jpg
    286.8 KB · Views: 159
   / Mig or stick? #48  
To all the proponents of MIG....

Are you referring only / mainly to using gas? What are your thoughts about using flux-core wire?

I am a simple DIY level welder and have only ever used stick, and an el-cheapo machine. I am interested in elevating my welding and MIG is one of the considerations.

Besides the gas vs flux question, how significant is the quality and size of the actual machine?

Thanks
Ken

I like self shielded flux core just fine. 71t-11 like Shield Arc mentioned.
When I first used it, the machines were all small underpowered ones running 0.035" wire.
They ran it fine but it was kind of slow going.

When I used it on a 200 amp machine it was obvious that it could do the job - more power more better :D
The 0.035" and 0.045" wire both worked very well.
Bonus, works great outside in the wind and no bottle.
I've used it a little in my wire feeder off my bobcat 225 engine drive too. Works very well but I mostly stick weld from the bobcat.

The wire runs great even in vertical up for heavy work or vertical down for lighter gauge.

I don't have access to 400 amp+ machines, but I'm sure they are even more impressive.

Whenever solid wire or flux core is involved, power is king. :)
 
   / Mig or stick? #49  
I like flux core E71T-11 rated wires for my needs as it is suitable for multiple pass applications where the -GS suffix wires are not suitable for multiple passes. Yes you still have to chip flux between passes. Flux core actually burns a tad hotter so you get a little more oomph out of it on any machine as compared to MIG mode, but you do lose some of the thinnest metal capability of the MIG spectrum but not much and what little you lose is often worth it in the gains you make at the other end being able to go a little thicker. Flux core makes the welder much more portable, works somewhat better on dirtier metal, and works great outdoors in the wind where MIG does not.

If all you have is a 115 volt wire feeder (of decent quality) you will easily gain 1/16" of thicker metal capability compared to what it can do in MIG mode. I imagine bigger machines are even more in gains but one can get a decent idea by looking at the charts the manuf. put inside the doors and see how much more each machine is rated for when you simply switch it to flux core.

Downsides are: Lots of smoke and harder to see puddle. chipping slag. (and almost all wires that are rated for multiple pass from a wire feeder do have a limit to the number of passes that can actually be made and still deemed acceptable by AWS. With Stick there is no limit to the number of passes that can be made to complete a weld. In my opinion, for this reason alone there are areas in big industry where stick welding will never ever be replaced. Again my opinion only from a backyard piddler who fixes junk as I like my stick machine too.
 
Last edited:
   / Mig or stick? #50  
I feel like you are trying to be argumentative, I have no interest in that so I'll bow out of the discussion.

The only argument here, is in hanging Stick over every newbys head. I suspect the reason you bowed out, is youd like to continue to do this? The OP asked the constant, on-going question; which is “ MIG or stick “ ?? In 5 pages how many definitive answers are there for the OP?

The goal of helping a new welder achieve quicker success and satisfaction; is pretty basic. Hes got some stuff to fix. Some stuff to build. Perhaps NOW. Hes look around and everyone is doing it well with a MIG with obvious success and learn quickly. Then he gets on a forum and the advice (from the guys who want them to struggle first) say you cant do it like that, you have to learn stick first. 覧->Its OK to question this because it obviously does not follow reality.

FWIW my stick welds AFTER years of MIG are much better than before. So much better, I was shocked. Its probably better to start a newby on MIG before stick.

Its perfectly reasonable to learn puddle control cuz you hold the MIG cup steady rather than following it into the weld. You can see it, its in your view. Whereas with stick you have to follow the rod in, and the stinger is a foot away, out of view. With a MIG you can focus on puddle control much sooner in your learning process. Obviously. Its probably faster to learn stick AFTER MIG.

Plus you can start on your projects and gain satisfaction.
 
Last edited:

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

2018 PETERBILT 579 SLEEPER (A51222)
2018 PETERBILT 579...
2018 Toro Grounds Master 7200 72in Zero Turn Commercial Mower (A50324)
2018 Toro Grounds...
2015 FORD F750 BOX TRUCK (A51219)
2015 FORD F750 BOX...
Miller and Smith PNR-1000 Pull-Behind Proof Roller Trailer (A49461)
Miller and Smith...
Genie GTH-644 (A50490)
Genie GTH-644 (A50490)
2015 MACK GU713 (A50854)
2015 MACK GU713...
 
Top