Mini split heat pumps

[texbaylea]

I am planning a couple of additions to this house to add much needed room. Rather than get into replacing the existing unit (A/C & electric heat) and reworking the ducts $$$$$$ I am looking at using mini split heat pump units in the additions. Some of these units are using Freon R410A rather than R22. The write-ups stated that the discharge temp in heat mode is higher (unspecified) with R410A.

Any one have experience with these units or knowledge of what the discharge temp would be?

Vernon

 

[Sigarms]

All the ones I'm familiar with only use R410A due to the 13 S.E.E.R mandate. Not sure if you'll find any that use R-22 anymore.

 

[texbaylea]

Sigarms

I have only just started researching this but about half the units I have found so far are R22. I like the lower heating costs with heat pumps but the lower discharge temp with R22 is discouraging and my wife would not be happy with it. Do you know what the normal discharge temp is with the R410A units?

Vernon

 

[czechsonofagun]

I am planning a couple of additions to this house to add much needed room. Rather than get into replacing the existing unit (A/C & electric heat) and reworking the ducts $$$$$$ I am looking at using mini split heat pump units in the additions. Some of these units are using Freon R410A rather than R22. The write-ups stated that the discharge temp in heat mode is higher (unspecified) with R410A.

Any one have experience with these units or knowledge of what the discharge temp would be?

Vernon

Not sure what Freon it uses, but when we made the top of our barn to be kids playroom/quest room we used a split unit. I dont remember the size of it anymore, but after 4 years it still going strong with cooling in summer and heating in winter. It generates heat down to 36F outside temperature and it easily heats up/cools down the space.
Would do it again without question. I like the heat/cool option - unlike window units - and the safety heating for a kids play room.

I bought it on ebay and installed it all myself - wiring, copper plumbing - and the HVAC guy did the final connecting and charging.

Here is a photo from some work progress, the unit is on the wall in the back right. The area is 40 feet long and 15 feet wide and I dont remember data on the unit but I can look it up if necessary.

 

[Sigarms]

Check the SEER rating on the R22 units that you are looking at. I'm betting that they are actually 10 SEER units. Yes, R410A, due to operating temperatures, will increase the the air discharge temperature, which may vary due to some other variables. Honestly, wouldn't bother me if it was an R22 unit compared to a R410A unit, however, since they are no longer currently manufacturing 10 SEER units, some times you may think your getting a deal on a 10 SEER unit and in reality your getting bent over so far that your head hits the ground.

 

[BobRip]

Check the SEER rating on the R22 units that you are looking at. I'm betting that they are actually 10 SEER units. Yes, R410A, due to operating temperatures, will increase the the air discharge temperature, which may vary due to some other variables. Honestly, wouldn't bother me if it was an R22 unit compared to a R410A unit, however, since they are no longer currently manufacturing 10 SEER units, some times you may think your getting a deal on a 10 SEER unit and in reality your getting bent over so far that your head hits the ground.

I thought the R22 was getting hard to obtain and very expensive. Should this be a concern?

 

[Sigarms]

I thought the R22 was getting hard to obtain and very expensive. Should this be a concern?

Currently, R22 is still in VERY good supply. Also, currently, R22 is still substantially less expensive per pound compared to R410A.

Keep in mind, this is the mandate from the federal goverment, so what I'm about to say in open to debate I'm sure.

2010, all compressor bearing cooling equipment (at least from the residential standpoint) will end using R22 (I honestly don't know about commerical, because although residential 10 SEER equipment has stopped being produced, 3 phase equipment in R22, which is considered "commercial" is still being made). By 2020, R22 will no longer be produced. Supply and demand. Carrier did a great job marketing "Puron", which is R410A. All the major manufacturers now have equipment which uses R410A. R410 Prices have SLOWLY decreased in cost while R22 prices have increased. As mentioned, R22 is still currently well below the R410A cost, BUT given time, you will see the price of R22 exceed R410A as time goes on.

Also, you will see a decrease in price in R410A equipment as time goes by as well because everyone is manufacturing those units now.

Last year, I replaced a system in my house with an R22 unit (I also have good access to R22). I have another that I will be doing next year, and that will be with an R410 unit (in that time frame, the cost difference between the R22 and R410 units have come closer).

Keep in mind, they already have a drop in gas for R22, so if, lets say R22 were to dissapear tomorrow, you would still have a "gas" to use for replacement in your R22 system.

Again, dealing with the federal goverment, who knows? Also keep in mind, what I've stated is only what I've heard and been told. Sometimes I hear 20 different things on the same subject, particularly when it comes to the EPA and what they plan and why they plan it.

 

[texbaylea]

Sigarms
Does R22 require a technician certificate to purchase? I have used up my reserve of R22 and would like to get more.

Vernon

 

[Sigarms]

Sigarms
Does R22 require a technician certificate to purchase? I have used up my reserve of R22 and would like to get more.

Vernon

As far as I know, a CFC card is required to purchase freon.

 

[keving]

I use two of the Mr. Slim units. One is in my 24x24 insulated garage and it works incredibly well. It does good down to the upper 20s. The other is at my cabin on top of a mountain in WV. It does really well there too. I can't say anything bad about the Mr. Slim units. I was told that they are the most reliable and trouble free. I bought mine directly from the wholesaler and did the wiring myself. I paid a refer guy to come in and do the flared connections and pull the vacuum on the lines. Unit costs were about $1500 and another $100 for the refer guy. I highly recommend the Mr. Slims and the good folks at:

http://www.acwholesalers.com/shop/list_brandedproducts.asp?brand_id=7

 

[Alan L.]

I am putting a 12000 BTU minisplit a/c only unit in the master bedroom of our new house. We like it COLD when we sleep in the summer, and we can turn off the central air and use the minisplit for this purpose, to save energy. The unit we got I think is an LG 13 SEER. When my HVAC guy ordered it there were many 10 SEER and below units available just a few weeks ago. Something tells me the 13 SEER minimum does not apply to these units as it does with the regular units, or else there is just a huge leftover inventory.

I didn't get a heat pump because I have no use for it. Although it was 13 degrees this morning this kind of cold weather is fairly rare, I'm hot natured anyway, and we have the room covered with a heat pump for the entire downstairs anyway if needed. But I can tell you we did not run the heat all night last night with the temp in the teens, and the only thing that changed was the fact that I didn't run the window a/c and certainly didn't run the heat. It was maybe 59 in the bedroom come morning, and I turned on the heat at that time. Warms up to 70 in about 20 or 30 mins and then its too hot.

I'm hoping the minisplit works as well as the $250 window unit we are using now.

 

[Sigarms]

Something tells me the 13 SEER minimum does not apply to these units as it does with the regular units, or else there is just a huge leftover inventory.

Ductless split mini systems are affected by the 13 SEER mandate just like conventional residential split systems.