Mt 240he hydro cavitation?

[ZetorSteve]

Hi everyone! Long time lurker but decided to join because I need some help. My mt240 has a short cavitation/aeration noise coming from the hydro unit/ hydraulic pump every cold start. Tractor sits overnight and the first start it sounds like the pumps lost it's prime. You can hear the fluid being sucked to the hydraulic pump and then the hydro unit will wine loudly for about 2 seconds.

Is there a common problem associated with this?

I will post a video tomorrow after it sits overnight, pics and videos are always 1000 times better than words.

Thanks

 

[Bearsixty7]

I have about 120 hrs on mine and it's a year old the 19th. I have not experienced what you described. A video will really be helpful.

Is the hydraulic fluid at the proper level?
Has it always done this?
Are you the original owner?
How many hours on it?
Any fluids or filters replaced since you have owned it?

 

[JCoastie]

Mine has a loud "cry/whine" it lasts for maybe 8 seconds or so when I start it. I asked the dealer about it, they said it was normal (of course) as the fluid heats up. And it does this whether the outdoor temp is 30 or 90 degrees F. I'll see if I can get a video of it.

Edit, video is uploading, will post link when its done.

 

[JCoastie]

Is this the same noise? Anyone agree this is normal?

The hydraulic fluid level has been checked, it made the same sound with the factory filters when delivered and continues after the 50hr service with a new OEM set of filters, now at 170ish hours, it has always done this.

Video

 

[ZetorSteve]

Is this the same noise? Anyone agree this is normal?

The hydraulic fluid level has been checked, it made the same sound with the factory filters when delivered and continues after the 50hr service with a new OEM set of filters, now at 170ish hours, it has always done this.

Video

Yes! But not nearly as long. Maybe 2 seconds after start and it's over.


Mine has 127hrs on it. Started about 15hrs ago. Replaced all the filters at 50hrs and topped the hydraulic oil with shell J20C oil.
These are all factory LS filters too. I am the original owner. When it first started doing it the level was on the min mark. Topped it to the full and it seemed to stop for a few days. Came back a few days after it was topped.

 

[Bearsixty7]

Is this the same noise? Anyone agree this is normal?

The hydraulic fluid level has been checked, it made the same sound with the factory filters when delivered and continues after the 50hr service with a new OEM set of filters, now at 170ish hours, it has always done this.

Video

Whoa! Mine has never made that sound!
I think it may be due for a trip to the dealer for warranty coverage.

Only easy things I can think to check are,

Remote valve is not in a detent position?
Is the 3pt lift all the way up? maybe try moving it down an inch.
If you engage the PTO does it change pitch or stop it immediately?

 

[Bearsixty7]

Yes! But not nearly as long. Maybe 2 seconds after start and it's over.

Mine has 127hrs on it. Started about 15hrs ago. Replaced all the filters at 50hrs and topped the hydraulic oil with shell J20C oil.
These are all factory LS filters too. I am the original owner. When it first started doing it the level was on the min mark. Topped it to the full and it seemed to stop for a few days. Came back a few days after it was topped.

I haven't replaced the hydro filter (driver side) on mine yet since the manual doesn't call for it until 300 hrs but I have been topping the hydraulic fluid off with the same Shell Rotella HD Tractor Transmission & Hydraulic Fluid.

EDIT: Well crap! I opened the manual and looked again to confirm the hydro filter and I was looking at the Mech drive chart and not the HST drive chart. I need to change my Hydro filter ASAP!

EDIT2: I see another contributor to my missed maintenance, the "First 50 hour check" page doesn't list hydro filter either as part of the maintenance.

 

[PCABE5]

My old Boomer 40, XR3140, used to make that sound on start up. Lasted just a few seconds.

To me it sounded like it was in the steering/hydro circuit but I never had an issue because of the noise. Fluid and filter change had no effect for mine.

 

[JCoastie]

Sent the video to the dealer, they now agree that isn't normal. More to follow in time.

 

[JCoastie]

from the dealer based on the video and a few questions (hyd fluid level, filters, etc)

LS service department will determine whether the HST will be replaced. We will have to test pressures before they will approve ordering parts.

 

[ZetorSteve]

from the dealer based on the video and a few questions (hyd fluid level, filters, etc)

Nice, keep us updated please.

 

[JCoastie]

tractor was at the dealer for a week, picked it up today. They were able to reproduce the noise several times, but not locate the cause as it only lasts a few seconds and usually just the initial start of the day, or after sitting several hours, enough to cool down completely. It hasn't changed over the last year, but we'll see if it gets worse, and if we can identify the sound location here, and get it back in before the warranty is up in another year. The sound originates from the front, under the hood, so it isn't the HST, but the turbo, hydro and steering pumps are up there. LS corporate says it may be a "relief valve sticking" but the techs were unaware of a relief valve up front anywhere. Wish there was something more definitive to report rather than a wasted week.

 

[JCoastie]

Remote valve is not in a detent position?
Is the 3pt lift all the way up? maybe try moving it down an inch.
If you engage the PTO does it change pitch or stop it immediately?

1) My remotes do not have a detent position, they are return to center. I had them added maybe 8 months after I got the tractor. The noise happened before I had remotes and continues without change with the remotes.

2) Usually, I have all hydraulic pressure relieved when I shut down, start, warm up, raise the 3pt all the way up, and the FEL high enough for transit. I'll try lowering the 3pt when the sound happens.

3) Haven't tried that, usually like to let it warm up more before engaging the PTO, but will give it a shot.

Noise really only happens when I initially start moving.

 

[PCABE5]

tractor was at the dealer for a week, picked it up today. They were able to reproduce the noise several times, but not locate the cause as it only lasts a few seconds and usually just the initial start of the day, or after sitting several hours, enough to cool down completely. It hasn't changed over the last year, but we'll see if it gets worse, and if we can identify the sound location here, and get it back in before the warranty is up in another year. The sound originates from the front, under the hood, so it isn't the HST, but the turbo, hydro and steering pumps are up there. LS corporate says it may be a "relief valve sticking" but the techs were unaware of a relief valve up front anywhere. Wish there was something more definitive to report rather than a wasted week.

From what I remember mine did the exact same thing. Sometimes if it didn't make the noise right away it would as soon as you touched a hydro pedal and only after sitting for a day.

Your power steering pump supplies oil to the steering, hydrostatic pump, and oil cooler. Within the steering circuit your steering valve has a relief built into it so if LS is thinking of a relief that's the only one I know of besides the hydro relief under your feet. Maybe get a stethoscope and have someone start it why you listen to different lines and hoses.

Good luck in your mystery.

 

[ZetorSteve]

First thing if you have a screw on hst filter make sure it hasn't come loose, if the filter is right the filter screen may be stopping up other than those filters it's possible fluid itself is breaking down. I had issues with my hst where the filters were the cause and also issues trying fluids that was suppose to meet specs but quickly started breaking down because it couldn't disperse / get rid of moisture in the fluid, and that's where most cavitation is caused by water / moisture in the fluid / oil and air also. Only two fluids I use now Mahindra universal tractor hydraulic fluid and Sinopec universal tractor brake hydraulic fluid both of these fluids work great on my emax25 without breaking down before time to change.

Seriously doubt it is a fluid breakdown or filter issue. Still on it's original fill and filter was changed according to LS 50 hr maintenance. Filter is original LS and installed properly. Is definitely an aeriation issue. The oil is very foamy when the noise starts and you can hear the oil being drawn to the hydraulic and steering pumps on a cold start. Definitely a loss of prime issue. I need to pressurize the suction side and see if it will leak.

 

[ZetorSteve]

tractor was at the dealer for a week, picked it up today. They were able to reproduce the noise several times, but not locate the cause as it only lasts a few seconds and usually just the initial start of the day, or after sitting several hours, enough to cool down completely. It hasn't changed over the last year, but we'll see if it gets worse, and if we can identify the sound location here, and get it back in before the warranty is up in another year. The sound originates from the front, under the hood, so it isn't the HST, but the turbo, hydro and steering pumps are up there. LS corporate says it may be a "relief valve sticking" but the techs were unaware of a relief valve up front anywhere. Wish there was something more definitive to report rather than a wasted week.

Thanks for the update. At least you have a paper trail that the dealer duplicated the problem and could not repair it. If it gets much worse or damage happens you will have a much better chance of getting a good will repair done on LS's dime if it fails out of warranty. Of course, a lot of polite beaching will be involved most likely.

 

[ZetorSteve]

had to clean my hst screen filter twice after the first fifty hour service, yep that foamy fluid is a indication something going on. Mine had a good bit of break in material. last week I did another fluids change 1180 hours and the screen was very clean just a few specks but got cleaned anyway. I wonder if the dealership actually cleaned the hst screen on mine on the fifty hour service.

Where is the screen on an MT240HE?

 

[Unclewillie]

Where is the screen on an MT240HE?

 

[JCoastie]

Is the 3pt lift all the way up? maybe try moving it down an inch.
If you engage the PTO does it change pitch or stop it immediately?

no change moving the 3pt down or engaging the PTO.

 

[Unclewillie]

I haven't replaced the hydro filter (driver side) on mine yet since the manual doesn't call for it until 300 hrs but I have been topping the hydraulic fluid off with the same Shell Rotella HD Tractor Transmission & Hydraulic Fluid.

EDIT: Well crap! I opened the manual and looked again to confirm the hydro filter and I was looking at the Mech drive chart and not the HST drive chart. I ne