Mx5100 let me down!

   / Mx5100 let me down! #21  
It certainly isn't the fault of the tractor, it is simply misapplication. In my opinion no tractor should be equipped with a loader without first ballasting the tires unless there is a good reason not to (ex, a machine that will be used mostly for turf work with the FEL off). Nearly all of your stability comes from your solid rear axle. Loading tires isn't costly and the new organic liquids developed specifically for ballasting (Rimguard, Citrastar, beetjuice, etc) don't eat the rims up like calcium chloride did. If you have R4s on your MX, a 3/4 load will add about 450 lbs to each tire and that will make an enormous difference in your stability, both for the loader and for side hills. Additionally if you are going to be doing a lot of really heavy loader work, make up an adequate 3 point counterweight. I usually max that at about half of what the loader will lift at BC to full height, in your case 8-900 pounds. Counterweighting has the addition benefit of transferring some of the front axle weight back to the rear axle and will provide a lot more traction as well as stability.
Over the last few years I have built roughly 1 1/2 mile of road on my very steep and in some areas very soft New Hampshire property using my L5240 equipped with a Woods HD bucket. That bucket will hold a little over 1/2 yard heaped. My preferred base material is 3-6" granite ledgepack which weighs in at about 3000# per yard if its relatively dry. It's heavy and tends to bind together which makes it difficult to dig into, but my well ballasted tractor does this easily, and so would yours if it were set up similarly.
Learn from Kubomans good advice too, the pickup point leveraging is critical. Even with the extremely light counterweighting of your tiller you might have been able to handle that furnace by wrapping your chain off the inside of the bucket rather than the outside.
Finally, and hopefully your dealer emphasized this during your training, if you find yourself in danger of tipping, ground your bucket!
Don't be discouraged, the tractor you have chosen for yourself is a performance monster and will do all you likely ask of it ...once you get familiar with it :thumbsup:
 
   / Mx5100 let me down! #22  
A bit of an addendum to my previous post...I'm assuming (could be wrong) that CJBOTA is new to tractor ownership.
If that's the case..well, when first operating a machine as tall and top heavy as a tractor...they always feel like they're going to tip over...even driving over a small bump. That's part of the learning curve...but always have the ROPS up and seat belt nice and snug (just in case...)

Another thing that can help (besides filling the tires) is widening the rear wheel track (width between the rear tires).Not a Kubota owner, so I don't know if you can just reverse your wheels, swap 'em side to side or you may require spacers (apparently, from what I read on TBN, spacers are necessary on some Kubotas).
 
   / Mx5100 let me down! #23  
A bit of an addendum to my previous post...I'm assuming (could be wrong)that CJBOTA is new to tractor ownership.
If that's the case..well, when first operating a machine as tall and top heavy as a tractor...they always feel like they're going to tip over...even driving over a small bump. That's part of the learning curve...but alway have the ROPS up and seat belt nice and snug (just in case...)

Another thing that can help (besides filling the tires) is widening the rear wheel track (width between thw rear tires).Not a Kubota owner, so I don't know if you can just reverse your wheels, swap 'em side to side or you may require spacers (apparently, from what I read on TBN, spacers are necessary on some Kubotas).

That is very often the case, what "feels like" a near roll over may not even be close and will vary between individuals. I have seen my son do stuff on our tractors that would scare me to death and he has never put anything on its side. I am not particularly uncomfortable with a back tire a foot or more off the ground under some circumstances, but certainly don't recommend it.

Different wheels on the different models, so it's hard to tell, on a couple of ours, you can unbolt the center dish from the rim and use several configurations while on some it is solid. We have all of our wide; not too familiar with spacers beyond the BX and B.

Very valid point on HST operation, I missed he was a new HST operator.
 
   / Mx5100 let me down! #24  
The smaller Kubotas are pretty light in the rear. On a tractor that size you need 1) fluid filled tires, 2) wheel weights and 3) extra ballast on the rear to really get full use out of the loader. IMO Kubota puts a little too much loader on some of their models.

My B3200 has fluid filled rear tires and usually a 400-600lb implement on the back for heavy loader work. Provides all the stability I need. A tractor the size of an MX5100 you need a 1000-1500lb implement on the back. I will say that the M9540 we have at the farm is pretty well balanced without anything on the back. It does have cast rear wheels and fluid filled tires however.
 
   / Mx5100 let me down! #25  
This is my set up . Wheel weights and 900 lb.s on back easy on easy off when I don't need it.
 

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   / Mx5100 let me down! #26  
My tractor is front heavy. With the loader and nothing in the bucket, the rear end was very light. When I tried to backup on a very slight incline I had to uise 4 wd. The box blade I have weighs 759 pounds with the weight I added, two steel plates bolted on and six 42 lb suitcase weights. There is no way I would I try to lift anything without the box blade on the back.
 

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   / Mx5100 let me down! #27  
That is very often the case, what "feels like" a near roll over may not even be close and will vary between individuals.

One thing I've noticed...if I'm operating in a low gear (very low ground speed), the changes I feel in the slope (less the 10 degrees) can really give me a queasy feeling...the same area in a higher gear (higher speed) doesn't bother me near as much...even though I would think the higher speed would be more dangerous.

BTW, I'm one of the safety freaks...ROPS up, seatbelt fastened at all times.
 
   / Mx5100 let me down! #28  
This is my set up . Wheel weights and 900 lb.s on back easy on easy off when I don't need it.

What model is your tractor and what are the wheel sizes.:confused:
 
   / Mx5100 let me down! #29  
One thing I've noticed...if I'm operating in a low gear (very low ground speed), the changes I feel in the slope (less the 10 degrees) can really give me a queasy feeling...the same area in a higher gear (higher speed) doesn't bother me near as much...even though I would think the higher speed would be more dangerous.

BTW, I'm one of the safety freaks...ROPS up, seatbelt fastened at all times.

Roy, for me I have found a lot has to do with the particular tractor. Things that scare me on our 5030 or use to scare me on our CX 80 won't on the 8540 and I have never really been concerned with our old Massey Ferguson 375, it is the most stable and stable feeling tractor I have ever driven. It is also the style where you straddle the center hump with fender immediately to each side.

I "imagine" in most case the higher speed would be more likely to tip you, but sure know the whole perception v reality often don't make much sense. Heck, I feel more comfortable with one side down hill than the other and when I was young and rode motorcycles pretty fast, I would take a fast right hand turn with more ease and comfort than a left hand one. And the same thing on my dirt bike on flat land, but preferred a left hand uphill turn to a right one.:laughing:
 
   / Mx5100 let me down!
  • Thread Starter
#31  
Roy you were right, I had the pedal to the medal. I understand what you are saying. Slowing down a little will keep the rpms up and keep the thing from dying. You were wrong though about me being new to tractors. Although I don't run them for a living I have been around them for about 40 years. Besides the Kubota I have a David brown 880 and a 1200. We also have an old Oliver that I can't remember the model number, but I think is around 75 or 80 HP. All those tractors are gear models and even the 880 is heavier then the Kubota. You could say I'm a little new to HST, however I have also owned a B2920 and a L3700 which were HST's. The David Brown 1200 has a bucket and loaded tires and probably would have handled this job. I took the Kubota because I thought this was a stove not a furnace. I keep the Kubota at my house the other tractors are on the other side of our property which is about 1/2 mile away. I'm not sure I understood the comment about hooking to the inside of the bucket. The biggest problem with the lift was it was so high. Imight not of rolled if i would have left it find center but I was trying to error on the safe side. There were two guys watching and they said I came up way too far on one side. That pretty much matched how I felt. As far as the power is concerned, my heavy 300 gallon Rears airblast sprayer will give the MX5100 all the tests she needs this summer. Late last fall when the sprayer arrived we calibrated it to the tractor. We had to set the variable pitch blower blades in the mid position because the MX5100 couldn't make 540 RPM with max air blast. We were also putting out about 12 GPM at 300 psi on the pump. Plus the 2000 lb weight of the sprayer and whatever 300 gallons of water weighs. In hindsight I probably should have bought a M7040. On the plus side I will run the sprayer with the tractor in low range. If it don't work I'll just use the Daid Brown 1200.
CJ
 
   / Mx5100 let me down! #32  
Roy you were right, I had the pedal to the medal. I understand what you are saying. Slowing down a little will keep the rpms up and keep the thing from dying. You were wrong though about me being new to tractors...

No offense meant...just the way I read that post lead me to believe you were new...but posts and the way someone interprets them can be wrong, as it was in my case.
 
   / Mx5100 let me down!
  • Thread Starter
#33  
Roy,
No offense taken. I appreciate your advice. I have been on the forum for quite some time so I know you have helped alot of people. Besides the J in my signature stands for Jackson and we Jackson's got to stick together. I share those old tractor's I mentioned with my brother-inlaw. Our father-inlaw passed away about 10 years ago and left us all the equipment and the farm to share and enjoy. He was a great man and a farmer. I was a city boy and if I would have known I was going to get into farming I would have paid closer attention to what he was doing. He made everything look easy. At one time he had over 10,000 peach trees. I gave the first peach I grew and picked to my 84 year old mother-inlaw. It was quite an emotional experience. I am going to retire from my real job next year and become a full time hobby farmer. I currently have over 2000 trees and plan to add probably another 1000 but not any more then that. Thanks again for your advice.
CJ
 
   / Mx5100 let me down! #34  
A thousand pound lift is not much for a 50HP tractor especially the 5100 with a 6' bucket. Certainly I agree that tractors should be ballasted, but that's probably 50% of what that machine's FEL can lift. If that thing is off the ground with that much weight, it needs go back to the factory or dealer for proper engineering or additional weight. Virtually every bucket full of dirt, wet chips or gravel is at least a 1/2 ton. That was not a big lift by any stretch.
my 2 cents.
 
   / Mx5100 let me down! #35  
i used my L5740 to load a round bale into a customers pick up. I picked up the bale and drove onto my driveway to wait. it was cold and their was ice on the pavement. I shut the tractor off and lowered the box blade. I dismounted and started to walk way.... I looked at my rear tires and then seemed high. I could rotate the rear tires.... I got back on, started the tractor raised the 3pt and lowered the bale....... Ordered rimguard the next week
 
   / Mx5100 let me down! #36  
One thing you need to remember is the front axle pivots. That means that you really only have one contact point in the front of the tractor until it leans far enough to the side when you hit the hard stop. So getting one of the rear wheels off of the ground is much easier than you realize without enough counter weight. I have an old 55 gallon drum full of cement for the 3pt. Even going down hills in 2wd can be tricky without rear weight.
 
   / Mx5100 let me down!
  • Thread Starter
#37  
Crazyal,
I was at my dealer yesterday and I was telling my mechanic (who also farms) what happened and he told me the exact same thing that you are pointing out. In thinking about it, I was on soft ground, when all that weight went to the one front wheel it caused it to sink a little before it bottomed out which magnified the problem. My mechanic said if I would have kept going I probably would have been ok. I really wonder if he would have said the same thing if he was the one on the tractor. Anyway thanks for your advice.
CJ
 
   / Mx5100 let me down! #38  
Hey CJ -
You'r not too far away, I'm south of Canton.


Frank
 
   / Mx5100 let me down! #39  
A thousand pound lift is not much for a 50HP tractor especially the 5100 with a 6' bucket. Certainly I agree that tractors should be ballasted, but that's probably 50% of what that machine's FEL can lift. If that thing is off the ground with that much weight, it needs go back to the factory or dealer for proper engineering or additional weight. Virtually every bucket full of dirt, wet chips or gravel is at least a 1/2 ton. That was not a big lift by any stretch.
my 2 cents.

The thing is we don't know the actual weight of the furnace he lifted. The weight was estimated. I do agree tractors should be engineered to lift a full bucket of "common" material, such as loose stone, wet dirt, etc. Sometimes the loader on my L4400 disappoints me and sometimes I'm OK with it. I do think the hydro pressure is set to low and one of these days I'll get it checked. A couple weeks ago I was loading asphalt millings into a small dump truck. On a heaping bucket full, I was unable to lift to max height. I was able to clear the sides of the dump truck to dump but was disappointed it wouldn't lift another foot or so to get to max height. Tractor rear stayed put, I had 1,000 pounds of ballast. I'd like to know how much a bucket full of millings weighs?
 
   / Mx5100 let me down! #40  
I'd like to know how much a bucket full of millings weighs?

Probabally not as much as the mud you had packed around your front axle in your avitar:laughing: Got a story behind that pic:licking:

Seriously though, according to what I could find online, asphalt is ~145lb/cu ft. And my L3400 heaped I think is like 9 cu/ft (1/3 yd) so your 1ft wider bucket should be closer to 11 or 12 cu-ft heaped.So thats somewhere between 1600 and 1800lbs. Just guessing though. Which probabally isnt bad since the capacity of your loader is like ~1550lbs @ bucket center. Asphalt is a good bit heavier than sand, stone, or dirt by volume as you can see. Same volume of sand would have been ~500lbs less.

Also keep in mind that the loaders on the economy L-series arent nearly as strong as kubotas grand and M models. They arent as strong as some of the competition, but except for rare ocassions, they dont need much more.
 

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