My dealer advised against SUDT

bugstruck · Nov 25, 2005

Just had my 50 hr. service and my dealer advised against SUDT in this area (Maryland). Said the benefits are negligable to non-existent and the cost doesn't warrant it. The dealer is one of the biggest in the State and must have thousands of machines in service. They are big on the construction side with their NH products too. And they have another large NH dealership location. They don't even stock SUDT which surprised me. They couldn't remember putting it in any Customer's machine.

When I told them I wanted SUDT, based on what I've read here, they said it was developed for Artic service which was nothing new. So I hesitated a moment and then I went with their recommendation. They drained the SUDT and put the UDT in. I did notice two things with the UDT. The BH outriggers don't leak down nearly as fast and the tractor actually tries to stay parked on steep inclines with the brakes on. The brakes didn't get or need adjusting, they were just checked and in spec. I had already run that drill myself. Wonder if any others are seeing a difference between the two fluids? Not a big deal, but I like the UDT a little better, so far. I do think the warm-up may be a little more important on cold starts though. I've read the threads listing some of the problems others have seen in truly cold weather. LIKE we are getting tonight...BURR. Just thought I'd throw this out to see if any others have seen any small performance changes as I have.

SkyPup · Nov 27, 2005

LOL, you need a new dealer that will give you what you asked for and knows something about SUDT..... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

MikePA · Nov 28, 2005

<font color="blue"> They don't even stock SUDT which surprised me. </font>
This is why your dealer gave you all the 'reasons' you didn't need SUDT. He could have just ordered it for you. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

bugstruck · Nov 28, 2005

Mike,

They would had put SUDT in had I insisted, no doubt. I believe they were sincere in their recommendation of UDT over SUDT. They just don't see the sense in it given our location and the fact that all us diesel guys warm things up before we start to work in colder temps. I shorten that warm up routine substantially in warm temps, but not when it's cold.

Both they and Kubota think it's acceptable product in this area. That should be worth something.

If I may drift abit....My unfortunate experience over the years, and about 25 non-tractor vehicles, is that I don't get any more longevity with better than factory prescribed minimum service products. While I can't offer even a bit of science to this, the vehicles I serviced with what many would call marginal products and just at or near the factory thresholds (company vehicles), have lasted longer than the one's I've taken extra good care of. I've lost (6) automatic transmissions over the years. The ones I failed to change the fluids in at correct intervals were not in that group. Same deal on the well serviced engines with the better fluids. Lost 3 of my 4 best serviced engines before 100K, one at 32K. To be fair they weren't on synthetic oil, but I don't think that would have helped much given their failure modes. It's the full size pickups I've had the most luck with and they've been worked hard and had less attention paid to. I know good fluids and regular service will improve the longevity of things, but it's primarily the luck of the draw on buy day IMO. If one is going to drop a rod, waste a thrust, or cough a valve prematurely, (same generally for transmissions) no amount of good fluids and extra service is going to prevent that for any substantial period in IMO. And as life would have it these days, I don't anticipate anyting to last way beyond it's expected lifespan. So I'm not nearly as fluid and service sensitive as I was in my 20's and 30's. Then I overdid it and didn't see the expected results. Mine isn't enough quantity to qualify really, but it has been my experience.

But back to the original question. Why am I seeing the slight changes in BH bleed down (actually that's rather noticable) and the better brake performance? I haven't a clue unless the UDT carries a higher viscosity. Don't think it does, but perhaps.

Always appreciate the replies /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

ksmmoto · Nov 29, 2005

I use the UDT in my L3430. My dealer said about the same thing as yours and they don't stock it.

I thought the L3430 came with UDT originally. If it did have SUDT to start with I didn't notice any difference at all. I have chagned it twice and have 425 hours on the tractor.

ksmmoto

MikePA · Nov 29, 2005

<font color="blue"> I haven't a clue unless the UDT carries a higher viscosity. Don't think it does, but perhaps. </font>
This would be my guess.

HGM · Nov 29, 2005

I completely agree with your opinion over synthetic necesity. With the advancements of oils(chemicals in general really) over the years, its a bit of overkill in my opinion. I've been in the auto bussiness for over 15yrs and have some prety good connections now, none of it has ever proved to me that cost and change intervals ever balance out to show synthetic to be a benifit to me. Sure it is a better quality and some have gotten a bit **** over oil tests to prove it. However in the real world, lengevity doesnt come as a result. Some vehicles are prone to magor damage, luck seems to have a good bit to do with it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

As for nothing lasting past waranty, I completely disagree. Most products are much better than they have ever been in the past. Vehicles are lasting longer with much less maintenance than before(tune ups, coolant, trans fluid, bushings,etc). As technology advances, it continues to get better. More and more technicians are getting out of the bussiness because the product doesnt require as much(money making) work as it used to. When I left the dealer, I was making the same thing I made 10yrs earlier($12 more per hour though) and less than the quick service guy at the end of the year. I was the highest payed guy in the shop and got all the stuff the rest of the guys werent qualified to do.

If you follow MFG recomendations, you should have good luck. If you over do it, you should have good luck too. The difference is, you pay more to over do it. Whatever works for you.

BTW, I think it would be the viscosity differnce too. Synthetic is much slicker in most cases so performance can vary due to that as well.

jeffmazz · Nov 29, 2005

Chris,
A friend of mine has a 3030 HST with over 2100 hours on it. He has run UDT since day one and has never had any problems. He also runs Kubota 15W-40 motor oil year round and the engine has also been trouble free. The tractor is used in central PA where temps. get pretty chilly in winter. He has always run these fluids because his dealer recommended them for his area and application. This machine works very hard and many hours per day landscaping.

Proper warm up and frequent fluid and filter changes will keep your machine running as well and as long as any fancy synthetics- IMHO.

The UDT will be fine in your machine. When it's cold let her warm up for 5-10 minutes and then put her to work. She will probably outlast all of us.

Jeff

_RaT_ · Nov 29, 2005

Kubota themselves recommeds SUDT for cold climates. The SUDT I would think would not only offer shorter warm up times since its cold weather characteristics are considerably better then UDT, but lower initial pressures in the HST filter if you have HST. I once had the Kubota specs on UDT and SUDT given to me by CNoel, a dealer from Wyoming and contributor here at TBN.

bugstruck · Nov 29, 2005

Hey Rat,

I understand what you and others are saying about the SUDT. I don't question it's a very good product for cold weather nor do I wonder if it has some better cold and perhaps warm test performance results. Anybody from Wyoming should know something about what you need to operate in the cold, so I wouldn't argue that decision....he needs it.

I had SUDT in mine and the cold weather hydraulic performance seemed basically unchanged after about 5 min. warmup as compared to warmer temps. So I admit it seems little effected by temperatures. I'm giving the UDT a try this winter and I'll post if I notice any performance difference. If it's that much different I should be able to feel it. I know on some of the bigger excavating equipment, the hydraulics are mighty sluggish until they are up to temperature. I'm not so neurotic as to gauge the pressures though for a cold vs. warm startup. I'm going to take my chances and test that via the filter casing. If I explode it I bet I'll have it full of SUDT in a hurry. But I doubt that.

Jeff,
I have the same general take as your friend. If I'm so fortunate as to make 2,000 + hours, I'll be past my tractoring days. The next owner can put IUDT in it. I for "incredible". That's the funny thing about this. In say 5 years we'll be saying SUDT is an inferior lubricant. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Makes you wonder how any tractor over 30 years old survived. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Bet they had artic blends back in the 50's, or cut the fluids with something to make them flow better. Not like they weren't running hydraulics up north in those days and before. Now there's one for anybody with oldtime equipment knowledge. That would be interesting to know. Don't remember anyone saying how they dealt with it then, aside from some comments about leaving machines running 7/24 in true artic conditions.