My letter to Kioti, loader rerepair, long

mwood · May 23, 2006

( Kioti has yet had time to investigate and possibly rectify the situation - no one here will be able to do that, and if there is a design flaw, offer a solution.

It is incredible the bandwidth this thread has consumed and to my thinking counter productively. )

I respectfully disagree. Highbeam is not the first loader with this problem. And by the looks of things, he won't be the last. Kioti looks at all their warrenty claims (at least I would think they would) and I'm sure they have seen the problem well before Highbeam sent them the letter. It's not like these things all cracked over the course of a week.

Furthermore, when Highbeam went to his dealer, the dealer should have called up someone higher in the company to ask the correct fix if he was unaware of the proper procedure for dealing with this particular problem. I can't say if this was done or not, but it should have been. The welding job he received is not something Kioti should be proud of.

I really don't believe that people are flaming Kioti here. There are many concerned owners trying to make sure that their >$10,000 investments are going to be fixed should the problem arise. Many here are waiting for a fix and are simply curious to see how Kioti will handle this problem. Personally, I won't be shying away from Kioti until I know they wronged people -- and that hasn't happened completely yet.

mwood · May 23, 2006

( Kioti has yet had time to investigate and possibly rectify the situation - no one here will be able to do that, and if there is a design flaw, offer a solution.

It is incredible the bandwidth this thread has consumed and to my thinking counter productively. )

I respectfully disagree. Highbeam is not the first loader with this problem. And by the looks of things, he won't be the last. Kioti looks at all their warrenty claims (at least I would think they would) and I'm sure they have seen the problem well before Highbeam sent them the letter. It's not like these things all cracked over the course of a week.

Furthermore, when Highbeam went to his dealer, the dealer should have called up someone higher in the company to ask the correct fix if he was unaware of the proper procedure for dealing with this particular problem. I can't say if this was done or not, but it should have been. The welding job he received is not something Kioti should be proud of.

I really don't believe that people are flaming Kioti here. There are many concerned owners trying to make sure that their >$10,000 investments are going to be fixed should the problem arise. Many here are waiting for a fix and are simply curious to see how Kioti will handle this problem. Personally, I won't be shying away from Kioti until I know they wronged people -- and that hasn't happened completely yet.

CBB · May 23, 2006

I agree and disagree.

First, when I talked with the dealer in January as a perspective Kioti buyer trying to decide between John Deere and Kioti, he said the only problem he had heard of with reliability was the front loader cracking but, as he took off his hat and scratched his head and looked at his shoes, he said, "they fixed that". He then gained animation as he described how the reliability is fabulous on this tractors and how they weigh so much because they have so much steel in them and on and on. I believe he believes all he said except when he looked at his shoes. So, this problem is not a new one, just a neglected one.

Second. I posted the letter I sent with printed attachments and a copy of this post to Kioti headquarters yesterday. I agree with KJ...let it rest unless we have definitive facts to report for now...for the sake of Kioti reputation. Let's give it a chance...instead of posting here, post a letter directly to Kioti...the address is on a post above. IF they do nothing, then we figure out the best fix we can here on line, as friends and associates and take this into account if we ever buy another tractor.

Third. The post asking for data about who has this problem, is a good one and we should all take a minute to remove four nuts and take a look at our machines and report back.

I am not going to post here again until I get a response to the letter I wrote.

CBB · May 23, 2006

I agree and disagree.

First, when I talked with the dealer in January as a perspective Kioti buyer trying to decide between John Deere and Kioti, he said the only problem he had heard of with reliability was the front loader cracking but, as he took off his hat and scratched his head and looked at his shoes, he said, "they fixed that". He then gained animation as he described how the reliability is fabulous on this tractors and how they weigh so much because they have so much steel in them and on and on. I believe he believes all he said except when he looked at his shoes. So, this problem is not a new one, just a neglected one.

Second. I posted the letter I sent with printed attachments and a copy of this post to Kioti headquarters yesterday. I agree with KJ...let it rest unless we have definitive facts to report for now...for the sake of Kioti reputation. Let's give it a chance...instead of posting here, post a letter directly to Kioti...the address is on a post above. IF they do nothing, then we figure out the best fix we can here on line, as friends and associates and take this into account if we ever buy another tractor.

Third. The post asking for data about who has this problem, is a good one and we should all take a minute to remove four nuts and take a look at our machines and report back.

I am not going to post here again until I get a response to the letter I wrote.

Highbeam · May 23, 2006

"This thread was originated on Sat PM by posting a third party letter to the distributor, I still am not sure Kioti had even received(they still(3 days later) may not have received it)."

This letter is an email transmitted on Saturday morning and received and routed within Kioti by first light Monday here on the west coast. I stopped using snail mail a long time ago, the letter wouldn't have even left my mailbox when Kioti had already begun to handle the problem.

"It is incredible the bandwidth this thread has consumed and to my thinking counter productively."

I also disagree, this has been quite productive for me and for other owners. We have shared information which has lead to several folks discovering a loader failure on their machines. Folks have learned that they must be proactive with warranty claims. All Kioti owners will benefit if this surfacing issue becomes a service bulletin or recall. I have also benefited by hearing and learning different points of view including yours rvaitor. I decided not to put my head in the sand, the loaders won't fix themselves.

Yes this issue has left me with an inferior loader now for 3.5 months. My warranty will expire before too long and then it will be my problem.

Highbeam · May 23, 2006

"This thread was originated on Sat PM by posting a third party letter to the distributor, I still am not sure Kioti had even received(they still(3 days later) may not have received it)."

This letter is an email transmitted on Saturday morning and received and routed within Kioti by first light Monday here on the west coast. I stopped using snail mail a long time ago, the letter wouldn't have even left my mailbox when Kioti had already begun to handle the problem.

"It is incredible the bandwidth this thread has consumed and to my thinking counter productively."

I also disagree, this has been quite productive for me and for other owners. We have shared information which has lead to several folks discovering a loader failure on their machines. Folks have learned that they must be proactive with warranty claims. All Kioti owners will benefit if this surfacing issue becomes a service bulletin or recall. I have also benefited by hearing and learning different points of view including yours rvaitor. I decided not to put my head in the sand, the loaders won't fix themselves.

Yes this issue has left me with an inferior loader now for 3.5 months. My warranty will expire before too long and then it will be my problem.

HODAK · May 23, 2006

Maybe I missed something in an earlier post, but do we know for sure that HIGHBEAM'S dealer contacted KIOTI? Like I stated previously, would KIOTI tell a dealer - weld it up as you see fit? Something is missing here. And, I agree with KJ - it takes time. Also, HIGHBEAM did get a timely response, (I believe). A generic response perhaps, but a response.

HODAK · May 23, 2006

Maybe I missed something in an earlier post, but do we know for sure that HIGHBEAM'S dealer contacted KIOTI? Like I stated previously, would KIOTI tell a dealer - weld it up as you see fit? Something is missing here. And, I agree with KJ - it takes time. Also, HIGHBEAM did get a timely response, (I believe). A generic response perhaps, but a response.

KiotiJohn · May 23, 2006

( I disagreed with you then about how a company would probably proceed, indicating my experiences.

Let's also not forget that Joe took this issue up not only with the dealer, but the dealer took it up with Kioti, and Joe took it up with Kioti. )
It's wonderful how you can take thing out of context for your own benefit Bob. There were many posts connected to that issue, and a lot more discussion of why I said what I did, some to illustrate how many companies have done just what I said until they were forced into a recall.

Taking my words out of context the way you have in this thread is unfair, and unwelcome. I can go back to many of your threads and pull out just a bit of it and make you out to be something you're not as well, but I don't need to do that to boost my ego as you have.

You had ONE experience where a company did a recall that wasn't forced into it, and I pointed out to you some that were BIG companies that were forced into a recall, and you state that just because that one company did that, that Kioti should just do a recall. That isn't a very realistic picture of what happens in the corporate world that I know.

You state that the dealer took it up with Kioti, and Joe took it up with Kioti, once again, your assuming, and you're wrong.

Joe didn't take it up with Kioti at all until he sent them the e-mail he posted at the beginning of this thread. It wasn't something he had done previously, but very close to the posting.

YOU don't have any idea of what the dealer did, anymore than I do, you weren't there, and even Joe doesn't know for sure what exactly the dealer did do.

Kioti apparently told the dealer to fix the problem, and a good welder would have been able to fix it just fine with the proper technique. Joe immediately came to TBN and posted the pics, long before he ever even talked to the dealer about what a bad job it was. I pointed it out, and he came back and said the dealer told him he had ordered a new frame.

Very likely, Kioti had already credited the dealer for the repair, and the dealer was going to have to pay if he got a new frame, at least that's my take on it. So things changed.

Now, Joe has finally sent Kioti a letter, or an e-mail, and posted it here right away before they could even respond. Right or wrong, that's the offical contact point for Joe.

That you're suprised now that I think it's a big issue doesn't surprise me, it gives you ammunition to try to denegrate what I'm trying to do, have a fair treatment of a company who usually tries to make things right. A month ago we didn't know there were as many loaders with a problem as have shown up since then. Back then, it wasn't a big deal, and Joe had not included Kioti directly in the issue. Still surprised Bob?

mwood said: I respectfully disagree. Highbeam is not the first loader with this problem.

Highbeam was the first person to say he had an issue with his loader. You've said a couple of times that he isn't the first. Who is?

If you have read all of the posts in this thread, you know that the dealer never even sent Kioti pictures of the damage. I suspect that yes, Kioti told the dealer to have it welded properly which could have been a good fix, but the job was botched.

I have to say, there are plenty of examples of Kioti's efforts to make things right. I'll give you all just a few.

When a couple of posters complained that their HSTs didn't have enough power, Kioti quickly jumped on the problem, addressing some relief valves that weren't operating properly. They even sent one of their main service guys to one of the customers house to change out the offending valve.

When there was an issue of some KB2375 loader stabilizers breaking, my dealer initially sent them pictures of the damage, and his correction and weld repair (adding a bracing piece in the stabilizer frame) and they immediately ordered all the new backhoes to have that piece put in, and repaired the few that it happened to with the same fix.

Even as we speak, letters are going out to all of the DK55 owners because of a "potential" problem with the outer gear on the 4WDs. They well be adding a bracing fix to the tractors at no charge to the customers, and this is not even a problem anyone has complained about, but a few tractors had problems because of it. A recall they weren't forced into.

A man I know who has a DK45, the older version, had grinding in his shuttle. The synchro was not working properly, but his tractor was out of warranty. He went to the dealer who called Kioti service and they told him to fix it, and they would write it up as a warranty issue, no problem

So for all the nay-sayers, especially those who don't have a clue as to Kioti's efforts to provide good service and maintain a good product, just back off and let them do their thing. They will make sure that all the problem loaders are repaired, of that I'm sure.

Some of you act as though the other brands don't have issues. Just wait until the new JD 3000 series, made in China start having problems. Should I go over to JD and start getting into it and making hurry it up statements when they've only had a few days of OFFICIAL notification of the issue? No, I wouldn't do that, as so many have in this forum over the last three years I've been here.

John

KiotiJohn · May 23, 2006

( I disagreed with you then about how a company would probably proceed, indicating my experiences.

Let's also not forget that Joe took this issue up not only with the dealer, but the dealer took it up with Kioti, and Joe took it up with Kioti. )
It's wonderful how you can take thing out of context for your own benefit Bob. There were many posts connected to that issue, and a lot more discussion of why I said what I did, some to illustrate how many companies have done just what I said until they were forced into a recall.

Taking my words out of context the way you have in this thread is unfair, and unwelcome. I can go back to many of your threads and pull out just a bit of it and make you out to be something you're not as well, but I don't need to do that to boost my ego as you have.

You had ONE experience where a company did a recall that wasn't forced into it, and I pointed out to you some that were BIG companies that were forced into a recall, and you state that just because that one company did that, that Kioti should just do a recall. That isn't a very realistic picture of what happens in the corporate world that I know.

You state that the dealer took it up with Kioti, and Joe took it up with Kioti, once again, your assuming, and you're wrong.

Joe didn't take it up with Kioti at all until he sent them the e-mail he posted at the beginning of this thread. It wasn't something he had done previously, but very close to the posting.

YOU don't have any idea of what the dealer did, anymore than I do, you weren't there, and even Joe doesn't know for sure what exactly the dealer did do.

Kioti apparently told the dealer to fix the problem, and a good welder would have been able to fix it just fine with the proper technique. Joe immediately came to TBN and posted the pics, long before he ever even talked to the dealer about what a bad job it was. I pointed it out, and he came back and said the dealer told him he had ordered a new frame.

Very likely, Kioti had already credited the dealer for the repair, and the dealer was going to have to pay if he got a new frame, at least that's my take on it. So things changed.

Now, Joe has finally sent Kioti a letter, or an e-mail, and posted it here right away before they could even respond. Right or wrong, that's the offical contact point for Joe.

That you're suprised now that I think it's a big issue doesn't surprise me, it gives you ammunition to try to denegrate what I'm trying to do, have a fair treatment of a company who usually tries to make things right. A month ago we didn't know there were as many loaders with a problem as have shown up since then. Back then, it wasn't a big deal, and Joe had not included Kioti directly in the issue. Still surprised Bob?

mwood said: I respectfully disagree. Highbeam is not the first loader with this problem.

Highbeam was the first person to say he had an issue with his loader. You've said a couple of times that he isn't the first. Who is?

If you have read all of the posts in this thread, you know that the dealer never even sent Kioti pictures of the damage. I suspect that yes, Kioti told the dealer to have it welded properly which could have been a good fix, but the job was botched.

I have to say, there are plenty of examples of Kioti's efforts to make things right. I'll give you all just a few.

When a couple of posters complained that their HSTs didn't have enough power, Kioti quickly jumped on the problem, addressing some relief valves that weren't operating properly. They even sent one of their main service guys to one of the customers house to change out the offending valve.

When there was an issue of some KB2375 loader stabilizers breaking, my dealer initially sent them pictures of the damage, and his correction and weld repair (adding a bracing piece in the stabilizer frame) and they immediately ordered all the new backhoes to have that piece put in, and repaired the few that it happened to with the same fix.

Even as we speak, letters are going out to all of the DK55 owners because of a "potential" problem with the outer gear on the 4WDs. They well be adding a bracing fix to the tractors at no charge to the customers, and this is not even a problem anyone has complained about, but a few tractors had problems because of it. A recall they weren't forced into.

A man I know who has a DK45, the older version, had grinding in his shuttle. The synchro was not working properly, but his tractor was out of warranty. He went to the dealer who called Kioti service and they told him to fix it, and they would write it up as a warranty issue, no problem

So for all the nay-sayers, especially those who don't have a clue as to Kioti's efforts to provide good service and maintain a good product, just back off and let them do their thing. They will make sure that all the problem loaders are repaired, of that I'm sure.

Some of you act as though the other brands don't have issues. Just wait until the new JD 3000 series, made in China start having problems. Should I go over to JD and start getting into it and making hurry it up statements when they've only had a few days of OFFICIAL notification of the issue? No, I wouldn't do that, as so many have in this forum over the last three years I've been here.

John