Need Advice Ford 1700 Upper Radiator Hose Burst

[JC-jetro]

Out of curiosity I went ahead and looked closely at your pictures. What it shows is evidence of horrible treatment of the rig by previous owners. That is not at all normal. I am surprised the tractor is not broken in half at the bell housing. Never seen anything like it, no wonder nothing lines up. Just for a reference look at the pic below on a machine that is normal, not abused and is 42 years old. Look at the engine support mount that provide structure for the front wheel, radiator ,battery and hood. That is the left side of the tractor and right side is exactly the same. The only exception is I do not have FWA or loader. Your tractor was seriously abused by improper use of the loader, back drag and or frontal accident.

JC,

 

[Justadudewithatractor]

So the quick history is that my father-in-law took incredible care of his 1500sqft shop/tractors/etc. Approximately 7 years ago, he became unable to really work on his farm and passed away 5 years ago. In this time, and up until I got here in October, it's been havoc in the shop where the tractor is. I've been trying to get things back in order, especially to help out my mother-in-law who still lives here. After he passed, his shop was basically "raided" by what I would consider unethical family members until they deemed there was nothing left of value. The shop had become nothing more than a place for "storage", but more or less things placed, and not organized. Personally, my father taught me how to use tools and figure things out which is what I've been doing since October, but I'm a weekend warrior type with my full time home in Los Angeles.

So there's a 6-7 year gap as to the care of the tractor which I have no information about except for tidbits here and there. I haven't heard of anything about a frontal accident, but then again there is the damaged hood.

I can't imagine he would've taken the bolts off, nor can I see why anyone else would have, but then again, they're obviously missing. Only two on one side and NONE on the other. The one bolt that I took off has a 13/16" head on the bolt.

My next step is to clean the area thoroughly and try and figure out what's happening with the alignment of the holes. They are not stripped, nor are there any sheared bolts needing extraction. They're just missing. I'm assuming those bolts should all be the same size which the holes are different sizes. Could mean that at some point someone did retool the holes or some of them.

Thanks again, JC

*sigh....

 

[JC-jetro]

Sorry to hear that. It's a shame but as they say " it is, what it is" as people say these day for everything. I think what you have to do it get a cherry picker / jack and lift the front of the tractor off the floor. Using enough jack stand and pieces of the lumber to steady the tractor so there is no weight on the front of the tractor and front axle. You would then want to remove one of the bolt. They will all be metric. Clean one of the hole , penetrating oil and compressed air. Then you want to check if that removed bolt fits the other holes in the block good. They should all be the same. I would use the same bolt and double check all the holes. I would then go to a good hardware store to see if you can duplicate that in grade 8 or highest you can find. The thing is that bar was removed at some point after a major damage. That metal bar can not just slide back and forth and stretch because of an accident or improper use of loader. it might have come due to vibration but that is so hard to fathom as those bolt are torqued pretty heavy and might even have a bit of loctite on them and also spring loaded washer. Shame on your "unethical family member", but good for you for trying to help your mother-in-law. My wife and I are in the same boat. Be careful not to hurt yourself as that tractor in that shape ain't worth permanent injury. Support the tractor as good as you can. Try to document your work with good pics so we might be able to help you better. Good luck.

 

[Justadudewithatractor]

Sorry to hear that. It's a shame but as they say " it is, what it is" as people say these day for everything. I think what you have to do it get a cherry picker / jack and lift the front of the tractor off the floor. Using enough jack stand and pieces of the lumber to steady the tractor so there is no weight on the front of the tractor and front axle. You would then want to remove one of the bolt. They will all be metric. Clean one of the hole , penetrating oil and compressed air. Then you want to check if that removed bolt fits the other holes in the block good. They should all be the same. I would use the same bolt and double check all the holes. I would then go to a good hardware store to see if you can duplicate that in grade 8 or highest you can find. The thing is that bar was removed at some point after a major damage. That metal bar can not just slide back and forth and stretch because of an accident or improper use of loader. it might have come due to vibration but that is so hard to fathom as those bolt are torqued pretty heavy and might even have a bit of loctite on them and also spring loaded washer. Shame on your "unethical family member", but good for you for trying to help your mother-in-law. My wife and I are in the same boat. Be careful not to hurt yourself as that tractor in that shape ain't worth permanent injury. Support the tractor as good as you can. Try to document your work with good pics so we might be able to help you better. Good luck.

Thank you for the support. Here's the update:

• Monday, 2/8/21 will be the day to try and rectify the situation.
• The front loader is connected to the back frame of the tractor, so I'm not in fear of the entire tractor coming apart. The loader is currently on the ground.
• I need to move the assembly backwards by 2ish inches and down 1 1/2 inches. Or I need to move the tractor forward 2 inches and the assembly down 1 1/2 inches for the holes to line up, if this makes sense.
• The two remaining bolts were not connected to the tractor. So no bolts were connecting the assembly to the frame. So the entire front loader was only supported by the connection to the back of the tractor.

My plan is to start the tractor with all fluids in place. Move the tractor forward with the front loader on the ground two inches. This should put the most rear bolt hole on the assembly above the most rear hold to connect. I will then jack the front(in front of the battery) up to move the assembly down. This will also move the radiator and hopefully make it straight to the fan. I'm hoping at this point I can get at least two holes lined up to "secure" the assembly to the frame. Also with the tractor started, I can nudge the front loader to help put the assembly in place.

Yeah, it's a plan...

 

[JC-jetro]

Thank you for the support. Here's the update:

• Monday, 2/8/21 will be the day to try and rectify the situation.
• The front loader is connected to the back frame of the tractor, so I'm not in fear of the entire tractor coming apart. The loader is currently on the ground.
• I need to move the assembly backwards by 2ish inches and down 1 1/2 inches. Or I need to move the tractor forward 2 inches and the assembly down 1 1/2 inches for the holes to line up, if this makes sense.
• The two remaining bolts were not connected to the tractor. So no bolts were connecting the assembly to the frame. So the entire front loader was only supported by the connection to the back of the tractor.

My plan is to start the tractor with all fluids in place. Move the tractor forward with the front loader on the ground two inches. This should put the most rear bolt hole on the assembly above the most rear hold to connect. I will then jack the front(in front of the battery) up to move the assembly down. This will also move the radiator and hopefully make it straight to the fan. I'm hoping at this point I can get at least two holes lined up to "secure" the assembly to the frame. Also with the tractor started, I can nudge the front loader to help put the assembly in place.

Yeah, it's a plan...

Pictures would help some. Please be careful with stored energy release abruptly. Watch your fingers and arms. Things may drop or jump as you remove the stress on sections of the assembly to line things up. Make sure things are secured properly. Secure the bell housing on jack stands and blocks of wood so the back end is securely on the ground by rear wheels and the bell housing. Rock things back and forth very carefully to make sure they are secure. Use long extension if you have to remove bolts. Watch your arm between block and the component of the loader arm. You do not want your arm get caught there if something moves on you. Just take real time, like i said, that tractor ain't worth loosing a limb over.

JC,


PS. Your loader is attached to the bell housing on 1700. I don't believe you have under-mount loader frame to tie the loader to rear axle. I don't know what you are referring as back frame of the tractor.

 

[Justadudewithatractor]

SUCCESS....maybe?

Here's the update. First, a huge THANK YOU for all the safety information and concerns. I took every precaution into consideration.

JC, you were referring to the type of front loader and I found out some more information from my mother-in-law. My in-laws were the second owners of this tractor which they bought back in the 80s. Originally it did not have a front loader and the original owner, who was an older, DYI'er found this front loader and attached it himself. I attached a photo with arrows pointing to the attach points. Different color, not factory front loader, as I understand.



I had to move the assembly back approximately 2" and down about 1 1/2". I attached all the hoses, put an old oil filter on(smaller and might get demolished), and added oil since running it last. Started the tractor and with the front loader on the ground, used the hydraulics to pivot the assembly. I also put the tractor in gear and nudged it forward an inch or so and with some more finessing of the hydraulics, behold, I actually got a hole or two to somewhat line up. Add in some adjustments with a jack and here we go.



A little give and take and finally we have a bolt attached, holding the assembly somewhat in place.



I did the same on the left side and was able to get two in place.



So far, better than before.
And now - First Issue:

Left side, assembly bent from the frame. I'm calling the bolts the first two, top/bottom, under the gas tank. It's bent out, away from the frame.


The 12mm and 14mm are threaded before they get to the frame. While a slow and tedious undertaking, I can see once I get the other holes lined up, slowly adding washers to slowly bend that back in place... Well that's my Rabbit Hole comparison. The assembly holes are threaded, and the frame holes seem to be shallow. Which is an issue.

The other holes are slightly off, but can be managed.

All thoughts welcome!

 

[JC-jetro]

awesome work buddy, I downloaded the pics to zoom in and out on my app. will look very closely this afternoon. Busy with meeting and a doc appointment, will get back this evening. So far so good. You are better off where you are then before for sure.

JC,

 

[JC-jetro]

I looked at the pictures again and a bit closely. Following is my observations.

1- factory loader is connected to 3 threaded holes on the clutch housing. I zoomed in close but cannot see if loader is indeed connected to clutch housing . is it?
2- I would get a straight edge and visually verify if the mounting plate on either side of the block is indeed bent due to forces. I think you have created some spring action by manipulating things by hyd force and moving the tractor front and aft having the loader on the ground.
3- I think weight of the loader should come off the tractor to see if mounting plate mate up with the holes without spring action. I don't know if you can start a bolt in the hole and force the plate move toward the block without damaging the threads in the hole. There is a lot of spring action there.
4- Like I said before engine need to lifted up by a strap using the lifting lugs along with a gantry or engine hoist. in that fix the front axle and the mounting bracket should be free and dangling lose and that might give you opportunity to line the holes , bolt the mounting plates and the engine without any spring action.
5- I still don't know how the plate came off the block and potentially sheared and broke the bolts.
6- I still see the drive shaft off and dangling for the FWA, are you okay with that?

Now, I have two very crazy ideas here for the sake of argument. I only bring it up just due to the shape of the tractor, it's value and how far you want to go with it. I hope other folks here jump in and express their opinion.

a-How about welding all thread studs in the holes and then tightening the mounting plate to the engine block with a nut and then double nut with strong thread lock on it.
b- How about welding the plate to the block where the loader can still work. This is really redneck style that I have specialty in. as they say, desperate times need desperate measures.

 

[Rebeldad1]

Sheared off bolts? All Grade 8 bolts and locktite would have been my answer going back in.

 

[Justadudewithatractor]

Sheared off bolts? All Grade 8 bolts and locktite would have been my answer going back in.

Hi Rebel,

The bolts were not sheared off. You'll have to backtrack in the thread to get the entire story, but in short all but two of the bolts were missing and the two that were there weren't attached. This all started with the hood being severely dented and not being able to fit properly. After having the hood fixed it still didn't fit, which we thought was all sorts of reasons.

It didn't fit because the bolts were missing and the assembly had shifted forward away from the tractor.

Grade 8 bolts are being put into place!

Thanks!