Need Advice Ford 1700 Upper Radiator Hose Burst

[Justadudewithatractor]

I looked at the pictures again and a bit closely. Following is my observations.

1- factory loader is connected to 3 threaded holes on the clutch housing. I zoomed in close but cannot see if loader is indeed connected to clutch housing . is it?
2- I would get a straight edge and visually verify if the mounting plate on either side of the block is indeed bent due to forces. I think you have created some spring action by manipulating things by hyd force and moving the tractor front and aft having the loader on the ground.
3- I think weight of the loader should come off the tractor to see if mounting plate mate up with the holes without spring action. I don't know if you can start a bolt in the hole and force the plate move toward the block without damaging the threads in the hole. There is a lot of spring action there.
4- Like I said before engine need to lifted up by a strap using the lifting lugs along with a gantry or engine hoist. in that fix the front axle and the mounting bracket should be free and dangling lose and that might give you opportunity to line the holes , bolt the mounting plates and the engine without any spring action.
5- I still don't know how the plate came off the block and potentially sheared and broke the bolts.
6- I still see the drive shaft off and dangling for the FWA, are you okay with that?

Now, I have two very crazy ideas here for the sake of argument. I only bring it up just due to the shape of the tractor, it's value and how far you want to go with it. I hope other folks here jump in and express their opinion.

a-How about welding all thread studs in the holes and then tightening the mounting plate to the engine block with a nut and then double nut with strong thread lock on it.
b- How about welding the plate to the block where the loader can still work. This is really redneck style that I have specialty in. as they say, desperate times need desperate measures.

1- This loader is not factory and not connect at the clutch housing. It's connected at the rear axel and in the front at the assembly - Hence why it's moving the battery and radiator with the assembly not connected. I have attached more detailed photos of this.
2- The mounting plate was bent before I started manipulating things with the loader on the ground. The bent area is where the only two remain bolts were located, but they were not bolted into the frame. If you look at the photo of the assembly about two inches in front of the hole, you'll see a "lip" and I believe the bolt(s) were under the lip, and the lip was holding the loader. Maybe, and a big maybe, the bolt finally got caught outside that lip and stayed in that position for some time, maybe years while sitting in the shop. The right side is not bent, but there were no bolts holding it together.
3- I'm going to attempt this tomorrow. I'm hoping to adjust the assembly down about a 1/4" in the front to line it all up.
4- Advice taken. It almost seems as if I have to attach the assembly to get the loader off to get the engine out, to detach the assembly to straighten it/fix and threading, etc - to then reattach everything.
5- Nothing sheared except something happened with the right/lower rear/frame hole. There's a hole, but nothing to screw a bolt to. All the other holes seem to be intact. ON THAT NOTE the assembly has been altered - It seems that a washer here or there may have been welded to the assembly mount. To the point where it would be worth getting a grinder in there to smooth the surface.
6- Yes, the drive shaft is off and dangling. I will address that after getting the assembly mounted. It broke when the front rotated, I'm guessing. I'm hoping it can be fixed with a weld.

As for your crazy ideas! I can't believe you addressed this about welding:
As I was looking at everything lining up(even with the left side bent outward), I had a thought that when I can get it all lined up, could I weld the entire assembly to the block? I should have maybe 5 of the 6 bolts in place on the left side, 5 of the 6 on the right side. Obviously they didn't weld this together in the first place, but is there any reason not to do it now?? Also, if a few of the hole threads on block are stripped, could I slip bolts into the holes and weld those bolts to the assembly mount just for extra "studs" into the block?. Just an idea.

Here are the photos of how the loader is connected to the tractor.

View attachment 686986View attachment 686985View attachment 686984View attachment 686983

 

[JC-jetro]

1- This loader is not factory and not connect at the clutch housing. It's connected at the rear axel and in the front at the assembly - Hence why it's moving the battery and radiator with the assembly not connected. I have attached more detailed photos of this.Yup, I see that. actually not such a bad setup. on my kubota I have a sub-frame mount that ties front to the rear axle that keeps a lot of torsional force in check.

2- The mounting plate was bent before I started manipulating things with the loader on the ground. The bent area is where the only two remain bolts were located, but they were not bolted into the frame. If you look at the photo of the assembly about two inches in front of the hole, you'll see a "lip" and I believe the bolt(s) were under the lip, and the lip was holding the loader. Maybe, and a big maybe, the bolt finally got caught outside that lip and stayed in that position for some time, maybe years while sitting in the shop. The right side is not bent, but there were no bolts holding it together. I heard you say there is hole on the engine but no bolt. do they have threads left? they all shoud have been the same hole and thread size. I put as many bolt as I can put and try to match threads per hole. the only way to straighten the bar is to take it off the tractor. I think previous operator lifted some thing very heavy and as he was going forward was Turing left an right forcefully and all that wieght wold directly go to the mounting plate. It did not damage the bell housing as the loader was securely attached to the beefy rear axle.

3- I'm going to attempt this tomorrow. I'm hoping to adjust the assembly down about a 1/4" in the front to line it all up. sound good. I hope it allows the mounting plate to line up better with the holes

4- Advice taken. It almost seems as if I have to attach the assembly to get the loader off to get the engine out, to detach the assembly to straighten it/fix and threading, etc - to then reattach everything. ok. sounds good

5- Nothing sheared except something happened with the right/lower rear/frame hole. There's a hole, but nothing to screw a bolt to. All the other holes seem to be intact. ON THAT NOTE the assembly has been altered - It seems that a washer here or there may have been welded to the assembly mount. To the point where it would be worth getting a grinder in there to smooth the surface.

6-Yes, the drive shaft is off and dangling. I will address that after getting the assembly mounted. It broke when the front rotated, I'm guessing. I'm hoping it can be fixed with a weld. perhaps , it would harder to line it up after than now. Twisting force, heavy load on the bucket and pushing tractor like dozer turning caused it to bake and come off

As for your crazy ideas! I can't believe you addressed this about welding:
As I was looking at everything lining up(even with the left side bent outward), I had a thought that when I can get it all lined up, could I weld the entire assembly to the block? I should have maybe 5 of the 6 bolts in place on the left side, 5 of the 6 on the right side. Obviously they didn't weld this together in the first place, but is there any reason not to do it now?? Also, if a few of the hole threads on block are stripped, could I slip bolts into the holes and weld those bolts to the assembly mount just for extra "studs" into the block?. Just an idea. not a bad idea, instead of bending the plate(difficult) might be able to add washers to take up the deformation and bolt it tight. I think you can get a good weld penetration on the mounting plate and not sure of the same on the cast engine block. Yo vcan do a sample weld to part of the block to see if it takes.

 

[airbiscuit]

As you try to line things up, I'm wondering if you might have a little more finesse and control if you used a hydraulic jack and blocks (or floor jack) to move things around?

 

[Justadudewithatractor]

As you try to line things up, I'm wondering if you might have a little more finesse and control if you used a hydraulic jack and blocks (or floor jack) to move things around?

Hi Airbiscuit and thanks for your reply. I'm using a little bit of everything in this process! I'll have an update in my next post.

Thanks again!

 

[Justadudewithatractor]

UPDATE - Success! Sort of, but at least one step closer...

As a recap:

We went from this:


To this:


And now this:


Every bolt you see are temporary until I get it all lined up.

The missing bolt on the left side is actually 12mm instead of 14mm. I have no idea why. Also the missing bolt hole and the one above it are threaded on the assembly "arm", meaning not a clean shot to the engine block. Not a big deal, and will fill the bent space between the assembly arm and engine block with washers.

My issue is the right side.


The lines that are running up to the front of the engine are preventing me from being able to get more bolts in there. The one black bolt is a 14mm x 30mm 10.9 bolt. As stated the hole with the clear shot is off and I'll deal with that tomorrow. But the other three holes, there's no way of getting to it unless I tend to those two lines. I'm afraid that I'm messing with a gigantic COW(can of worms).


Can I loosen those lines to get access to the holes? Not sure what the lines are.

Once I get this last piece together, I'll go back and replace each bolt with a proper fitting bolt, washer, lock washer and liquid "bolt lock". I have someone that said he can weld if needed.

All ideas about getting the right side bolts in are appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[JC-jetro]

UPDATE - Success! Sort of, but at least one step closer...

As a recap:

We went from this:
good

To this:
good

And now this:
this one looks specially good. You will have some spring in the frame member once you cinch it all. Make sure not to damage the threads in the hole sucking it together

Every bolt you see are temporary until I get it all lined up.

The missing bolt on the left side is actually 12mm instead of 14mm. I have no idea why. Also the missing bolt hole and the one above it are threaded on the assembly "arm", meaning not a clean shot to the engine block. Not a big deal, and will fill the bent space between the assembly arm and engine block with washers.

good work, looks good
My issue is the right side.


The lines that are running up to the front of the engine are preventing me from being able to get more bolts in there. The one black bolt is a 14mm x 30mm 10.9 bolt. As stated the hole with the clear shot is off and I'll deal with that tomorrow. But the other three holes, there's no way of getting to it unless I tend to those two lines. I'm afraid that I'm messing with a gigantic COW(can of worms).


Can I loosen those lines to get access to the holes? Not sure what the lines are.

Those two lines are hydraulic suction to the pump (bigger dia and discharge /high pressure the smaller dia. You can certainty take them out from the banjo bolts. They are connected to the differential (suction) and to pressure control block next to the seat. Do be careful not to bust them . if you take it entirely then you would need to prime and burp that line of hyd oil. there is potential of pump damage if you are not careful. I suggest to remove from where you show and gently push it back only to the extent you can have access to the bolts.

Once I get this last piece together, I'll go back and replace each bolt with a proper fitting bolt, washer, lock washer and liquid "bolt lock". I have someone that said he can weld if needed.
so far so good.
All ideas about getting the right side bolts in are appreciated.

let's see how this all come together. See how well you can tighten and torque the bolts without further damage specially to the threads in the hole. If the don't fully tighten then I would not force it getting a larger cheater bar. I am afraid of damage to the threads. if all relatively line up and you are happy with loader going up,down and curl then I still consider welding to keep things where they are permanently. The loader causes a lot of torsional force once things are picked up and right or left turn attempted. That stress goes directly to frame bolts.

Thanks!

Here I have a picture of my from axle and how the support is welded with a cross member. You's will look different as you have FWA. Does the pivot looks straight and without stress bend? that axle needs to pivot up and down freely.

 

[airbiscuit]

Rubber band a baggie over those hydraulic lines once you loosen them.

 

[Justadudewithatractor]

Rubber band a baggie over those hydraulic lines once you loosen them.

Hi Airbiscuit!

Could you please explain why a baggie of the hydraulic line?

thanks!

 

[Justadudewithatractor]

Here I have a picture of my from axle and how the support is welded with a cross member. You's will look different as you have FWA. Does the pivot looks straight and without stress bend? that axle needs to pivot up and down freely.

I loosened the hydraulics lines like recommended by JC and sure enough, while the lines started SLIGHTLY bleeding I was able to move the lines and put a bolt in!! THANK YOU JC!! While I'm not out of the woods on the right side, I have a play of attack. Bolts, washers, Locktight. Pictures sometime tomorrow!

 

[JC-jetro]

I loosened the hydraulics lines like recommended by JC and sure enough, while the lines started SLIGHTLY bleeding I was able to move the lines and put a bolt in!! THANK YOU JC!! While I'm not out of the woods on the right side, I have a play of attack. Bolts, washers, Locktight. Pictures sometime tomorrow!

Awesome, Glad you are moving forward well, just take it slow and steady and keep us updated. This turned out to be quite a wrestling match! WWF

JC,