Need some input on electrical issue

[ptgdigger]

I do some work for a small town government, one of the older traffic signals in town is having a momentary line power interruption problem, because it's older it doesn't self reset and will go to flash in all directions creating a snafu until someone gets over there to reset it. It is a very basic 60amp service using 3 - #6 copper conductors from the weatherhead thru the meter base ,thru the disconnect and into the control panel to 2 panel mount breakers and a neutral bar. Above the weatherhead the copper is bugged to the aluminum service drop and the drop is bugged again to the mains at the pole for a total of 6 bugs. The controller and all the lamps are 120v only, there are no 240v devices in this box.

For obvious reasons I suspect one or more bugs on the drop after 35 years of incompatible metals, rain and swaying in the breeze has developed a momentary connection problem, but before I send a service request to the power company I would like to try and narrow down the issue as much as possible, which brings me here to tap the knowledge , so my question is , can anyone give me some ideas of a simple device that I could attach to the output side of the meter base with some stout alligator clips and leave in place in the enclosure until it faults? Narrowing it down to the meter base or beyond would be very helpful.

My first thoughts were 2 cheap digital alarm clocks, one for each leg of 120v, once you set the time if it faults one or the other will be flashing, or if both it would indicate a neutral problem, hopefully someone will have a more elegant solution.


Thanks,
Ray

 

[gengine]

Wow that's creative! Sorry I can't help ya without being there to help you, but I had to stop in and compliment ya!

 

[ptgdigger]

Thanks, I work alone alot , so lotsa time to think this crazy stuff up :confused2:

 

[gengine]

I understand that. I've built two houses and a barn all by myself. You get to learn all sorts of creative ways to get things done. The only thing I can think of is to check all your bugs and anywhere the copper and aluminum meet to make sure things are good and tight. I wish you luck, and above all, be safe!

 

[LD1]

My first thoughts were 2 cheap digital alarm clocks, one for each leg of 120v, once you set the time if it faults one or the other will be flashing, or if both it would indicate a neutral problem, hopefully someone will have a more elegant solution.


Thanks,
Ray

I think thats a helluva good Idea:thumbsup: How often does it trip?? And dont forget....Take the battery out/dont put any in them alarm clocks:confused2:

 

[Misfire]

Why not just call the power company and tell them you have intermittent service on that drop? Mention the fact that it is causing a hazardous situation. That usually gets their attention.

 

[caver]

They make a Trip Trap
or make your own with a 110V relay. Wire it with a set of "seal-in" contacts and momentarily jumper those out to set the trap.
That digital clock suggestion is about as simple as it gets. :thumbsup:

 

[zzvyb6]

why not just run everything off of one leg? If it still goes on the blink (so to speak), that's the problem. If traffic control stays online, then its the other leg.

 

[JPCjr]

The power company should have a device called a "superbeast" or "megabeast". It connects to the meter socket and loads each leg independently. It will quickly indicate if there is a bad connection upstream of the meter socket.

 

[yelbike]

Wow. I like the clock radio idea. You can spend alot of money on a fluke or greenlee digital logging multimeter that will log any momentary power outages. How often does it happen? does happen in the wind? Power company shouldnt charge you anything for this job. Probably time for new crimps or split bolts, dont forget to use penetrox or similar product.

 

[ptgdigger]

Thanks guys , It may do this 2 times a day 2 days in a row or it may not do it for 3 weeks , really very random.

The power company will look into it if I file a trouble report,used to be you could flag down a utility truck around town and they would go right over and check it out for you , but the Penelec just did a round of cost cuts and the guys in the trucks want work orders for all their jobs so they don't get any further cuts, can't blame them for that so I just want to narrow it down to where I'm pretty sure it's not in the disconnect or the panel mounted breakers before filing a trouble call.


Ray

 

[Lineman North Florida]

Like someone said in an earlier post when the lineman comes out he will probably put a Beast of burden on it which will apply load to the service and has a volt-meter on each side that will monitor both legs, what he finds from that test should lead him in the right direction, through the years I have mostly found bad connectors, although once on a traffic signal box call similar to what you are describing I found a long service run but no problem with the connectors, I asked the traffic tech a few questions to try to figure the problem out and he told me that both times it had happened it was close to dark, well I had already noticed that there were several pieces of du-plex pulling off feeding 250 watt streetlights, 13 to be exact. I ran a new seperate service for the traffic signal and that solved the problem, the combination of the length of the service and all the streetlights coming on at the same time was to much voltage drop at one time and would cause the traffic signal to go into the blink mode. One other thing if the lineman can't find a problem the power company can put a voltage recorder on the service to help pin point the problem. Good luck.

 

[Mace Canute]

I do some work for a small town government, one of the older traffic signals in town is having a momentary line power interruption problem, because it's older it doesn't self reset and will go to flash in all directions creating a snafu until someone gets over there to reset it. It is a very basic 60amp service using 3 - #6 copper conductors from the weatherhead thru the meter base ,thru the disconnect and into the control panel to 2 panel mount breakers and a neutral bar. Above the weatherhead the copper is bugged to the aluminum service drop and the drop is bugged again to the mains at the pole for a total of 6 bugs. The controller and all the lamps are 120v only, there are no 240v devices in this box.

For obvious reasons I suspect one or more bugs on the drop after 35 years of incompatible metals, rain and swaying in the breeze has developed a momentary connection problem, but before I send a service request to the power company I would like to try and narrow down the issue as much as possible, which brings me here to tap the knowledge , so my question is , can anyone give me some ideas of a simple device that I could attach to the output side of the meter base with some stout alligator clips and leave in place in the enclosure until it faults? Narrowing it down to the meter base or beyond would be very helpful.

My first thoughts were 2 cheap digital alarm clocks, one for each leg of 120v, once you set the time if it faults one or the other will be flashing, or if both it would indicate a neutral problem, hopefully someone will have a more elegant solution.


Thanks,
Ray

Good idea there to test if it's a hotleg problem or a neutral problem! :thumbsup: You mention two breakers...are they both fed from one hotleg or are they each fed from a different hotleg? You know, sometimes the breaker connections fail from "old age" The contacts should have a self cleaning action when they are opened and closed, a sliding action that tends to clean them. When you are in there give them both a few trips and resets...can't hurt and might help.I expect you have already checked for loose connections anywhere you can get at them without danger to yourself or equipment but don't forget to check the neutral connections also...some people do I know.

Like someone said in an earlier post when the lineman comes out he will probably put a Beast of burden on it which will apply load to the service and has a volt-meter on each side that will monitor both legs, what he finds from that test should lead him in the right direction, through the years I have mostly found bad connectors, although once on a traffic signal box call similar to what you are describing I found a long service run but no problem with the connectors, I asked the traffic tech a few questions to try to figure the problem out and he told me that both times it had happened it was close to dark, well I had already noticed that there were several pieces of du-plex pulling off feeding 250 watt streetlights, 13 to be exact. I ran a new seperate service for the traffic signal and that solved the problem, the combination of the length of the service and all the streetlights coming on at the same time was to much voltage drop at one time and would cause the traffic signal to go into the blink mode. One other thing if the lineman can't find a problem the power company can put a voltage recorder on the service to help pin point the problem. Good luck.

That's the only way you will find an intermittent fault or voltage spike. Superbeasts are good at picking up an existing problem but won't work on an intermittent problem unless it happens at the same time the Beast is being used. Recorders can usually be moved easily down the line to sectionize where the problem lies and telling the Power company that you have an intermittent fault should get them to come out and check their stuff.

Off topic here...years ago when I was just an Apprentice Lineman, i was helping a District Operator track down an intermittent fault on a house service. We did everything....checked all bolted connections in the meter box and cut out and re crimped both ends of the service...still no joy so we replaced the triplex service drop. That cured the problem. Turns out there was a crimped splice in the old service and one of the crimps had failed. That rarely happens, especially on a crimp that isn't all that old.