Need Some Trailer Advice

jcmseven · Oct 12, 2005

Fellow Posters,

I need some trailer advice. I currently own a 16' tandem trailer with two 3500# axles and brakes on one axle. I have a 2002 Ford F-250 with the Power Stroke diesel and a Banks Power Pack with the Big Hoss module, but without the Banks Brake. It pulls great for this reason. I previously have pulled a John Deere 3720 with loader and various attachments. The tractor would fit, but barely, with say, the loader and a 72" RFM on the trailer. My initial total weight estimate was a bit high, but my later estimate of the weight of that load was 6,600#, trailer included, which put me easily under the axle limit. I recently traded for a 4520 John Deere with a 400x loader and various attachments. It is A LOT heavier. I would estimate the tractor, loader and box blade alone to weigh about 6,200#, which with trailer weight, is #7,800. I have hauled the tractor home from the dealer, which is three miles away, and the truck bowed and bobbed in back quite a bit. It pulled the load fine, but I did not like the fact that the hitch load seemed so heavy. I attributed this in part to the fact the tractor is much too long for the trailer, in addition to being overweight. My question is: I feel I will need at least an 18' trailer to haul this machine. Would I be OK with a hitch mount or do I need to consider a bed mount gooseneck? What are the advantages and disadvantages of each? I do not treasure the thought of drilling holes in my truck bed, but whatever is the safest with this load is my goal. I do not pull much, only about three times monthly, but when I do I will be on the highway several hours and will also have to negotiate some fairly narrow mountain roads (not tiny, though). I use my truck also as a daily driver. I want to ensure that unless I decide one day to get another tractor, the trailer I buy is my last one. I also want to tow with the confidence that I can pull with the power the Banks system gives, with stability and confidence and safety. By the way, my hitch is a Class IV, and I am currently running a 15,000# hitch with a 2000# tongue weight and a 30,000# ball (this part should be OK--by a little bit). Thanks to all for advice.

John M

Thorndike · Oct 13, 2005

In addition to the need for a larger/heavier trailer, is the Banks kit you have installed rated for trailer towing? IE, turbo outlet temps. When working a diesel the exhaust temps rise, sometimes to the point of frying the turbo. Best bet is to find out what Banks says, and get yourself a pyrometer installed to monitor those EGTs.
Now the trailer. I pull tractors/trailers all over the place with my 2000 Stroker. I use a 20' bumper pull, 12K trailer, with around 9000lbs loads. No problem. The longer trailer will allow you to move your machine as needed to properly balance your load. My trailer has 2/7K axles, brakes on both, with 2' beavertail. I also use 3/8" grade 70 tiedown chains with ratchet binders.
It's good your considering safety, too many others just have no clue. Look at how many 1/2 tonners and SUV's you see out there, terribly overloaded. BE CAREFUL!!!

Bird · Oct 13, 2005

( whatever is the safest with this load is my goal )

Both gooseneck and conventional trailers have their place, but if safety is your goal, in my opinion, the gooseneck is by far the better choice. It virtually eliminates swaying or fishtailing and I think, for most people, it's much easier to back and maneuver when you get used to it.

Farmwithjunk · Oct 13, 2005

I use a Dodge 3500 to pull a 20+5' gooseneck, hauling (at times) a 6400LB tractor, and USUALLY some sort of implement attached to it. That gives me7500 to 8500 of load.

I ALSO have a "bumper-pull" equipment trailer. It's 18'+2'. I won't even consider hauling the same tractor on that trailer anymore. The gooseneck is that much easier to haul with.

With a good hitch, properly installed, you can scale a percentage of your load on the front axle with a gooseneck. That gives you some added control. (Better balance on the truck)

You don't have the "leverage effect" that hooking to the hitch 3' behind the rear axle gives you with the bumper hitch. (resulting in the bobbing up and down...)

After having to deal with a couple panic stops while towing each. I'd MUCH rather deal with that pulling the gooseneck.

All in all, once you've dealt with a gooseneck, you won't ever regret NOT having a bumper hitch trailer. A positive experience for sure.

A further note. When you pick your trailer, get a couple feet LONGER than you need. That allows you some "adjustment" when positioning a load on the trailer. That allows you to center weight where you want it or NEED it. (i.e. On the back of the truck or more weight on the trailer axles.) Under most conditions, I load my heaviest tractor where it's almost 4' from the front-most position on the trailer deck. That lets me carry just the right amount of weight on the truck, and MOST of the weight on the trailer axles. (Goosenecks seem to be far more forgiving if and when you load too heavy on the trailer tail end. I've never experienced the trailer "weaving" like bumper pulls do when you load tail-heavy)

From all that I've learned over the years, trailers are like garages and barns. No matter how big you go with them, you'll always find the need for BIGGER. Give youself room to grow. Get an extra few feet. (My truck is a quad-cab, long bed. The trailer, like I mentioned, is 20+5' deck. The entire rig is 54' front to back. When I got the trailer, I couldn't imagine how I was going to get in and out of my driveway! With-in a few days, I figured out that ANOTHER advantage of a gooseneck is increased manuverability. Even on the narrow, winding road we live on, I've never regretted buying this trailer. (Also to consider, my trailer is 102" WIDE.)

Hope this helps.

KAB · Oct 13, 2005

You have already received some good advise but let me diecly answer your original question. YES, you can tow a hitch mount with your truck, but it would require weight distributing hitch. Go longer than 18' it gives you room to adjust the load better. And as already indicated a gooseneck will pull better than a reg hitch mount. The down side is that you will not be able to carry much on the bed of the truck. If that is important you will need to either make sure you have room on the trailer or use a hitch mount.

Not speaking from experience but from other input, there are people that do not like backing a gooseneck trailer. If you think that this might be an issue try to get your trailer dealer to let you back up a gooseneck trailer.

Kurt

Egon · Oct 13, 2005

Gooseneck for sure.

I pull a bumper hitch trailer but only because there is a camper sitting in the truck box.

Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Farmwithjunk · Oct 13, 2005

(

Not speaking from experience but from other input, there are people that do not like backing a gooseneck trailer. If you think that this might be an issue try to get your trailer dealer to let you back up a gooseneck trailer.

Kurt )

I'm at a loss as to where that would come from. 10 to 1, I'd MUCH prefer backing a gooseneck of a bumper hitch. ESPECIALLY a long trailer!

hunterridgefarm · Oct 13, 2005

I had to check my log-in name to make sure someone had not changed it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

You are from western NC, so am I.
You have a 16', two 3500# axles, brakes on one axle, so do I.
You have a 2002 F250 power stroke, so do I.
you need a longer, larger GVW trailer, so do I.

I recently added an FEL to my 3130 and it fills the 16' trailer, and with loaded tires and box blade I am over max weight. Not enough room for bush hog.

I have a hide-a-way gooseneck in my truck and currently looking to buy a gooseneck trailer. I have a fifth-wheel camper with a gooseneck adapter on it. The camper is 32', 9000 lbs and pulls much better than the 16' dovetail bumper pull. I can back both with no problem but the gooseneck backs, pulls, and handles much easier.

I to want this trailer to be the last one I buy and have to take into account I am buying a 50-70 HP utility tractor in '06. So I am currently looking at 20-25' with 7000 lb axles. I just need to go measure the utility size with FEL and bush hog to determin length.

One thing I was told by a dealership in Lenoir, NC. If your trailer is rated for 10,000 GVW in NC you need a Class A drivers license. If not it is a $300.00 fine whether it is loaded or empty. I live about a mile from HP/DMV and plan on stopping in to find out if this is true.

What area in western NC do you live, maybe we can buy from the same dealer and get a BIG BIG discount. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Bird · Oct 13, 2005

( I'm at a loss as to where that would come from. 10 to 1, I'd MUCH prefer backing a gooseneck )

Well, I think I know where it came from; someone posted a message recently with a comment about having a problem learning to back a gooseneck. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif But like you, and everyone else I've known who has pulled both, I'd much prefer backing the gooseneck or fifth-wheel to having the pivot point behind the bumper.

KAB · Oct 13, 2005

Huntingridgefarm
Bird has it right. That and watching a rental delivery driver try to back a gooseneck trailer into a drive one day. He took about 4 tries where I would have a bumper mount in 1 shot. Did you also notice that I said that a GN would tow better? Did you notice where I suggested he might want to give it a try? If he does not like and had a chance to find out before hand but did not, then what? Never did I say that I recommened one over the other and never will. I did try to point out common complaints of goosnecks as well as an advantage?

I try to give both views just not what works for me. (safety issues excluded even then it can depend) I try to listen to both sides and find the truth somewhere in the middle. In the case of this website that is usually something called personal preferrence. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Kurt

boomer4snow · Oct 13, 2005

I use a 3/4 ton Dodge with the Cummins engine and it too is pumped up quite a bit. I use a 22' bumper pull rated at 14k brakes on both axles blah blah blah. I Wish I had gotten a gooseneck because the ride is so much better, I seem to be able to back up either one fine. I will say that the 22' bumper pull is easier to balance than the 16' it replaced, and it pulls much nicer, but A GN is worlds smoother. You might consider a set of adjustable Airbags for the back to level you out and smooth up the ride, It did make a noticeable difference in ride for me should you choose a bumper pull style of trailer.

Boomerang1 · Oct 13, 2005

( Farmwithjunk
Bird has it right. That and watching a rental delivery driver try to back a gooseneck trailer into a drive one day. He took about 4 tries where I would have a bumper mount in 1 shot. Did you also notice that I said that a GN would tow better? Did you notice where I suggested he might want to give it a try? If he does not like and had a chance to find out before hand but did not, then what? Never did I say that I recommened one over the other and never will. I did try to point out common complaints of goosnecks as well as an advantage?

I try to give both views just not what works for me. (safety issues excluded even then it can depend) I try to listen to both sides and find the truth somewhere in the middle. In the case of this website that is usually something called personal preferrence. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Kurt ) Well, myself being a professional driver, I can tell you that a goose neck will back much better than a bumper pull. You can jack knife a goose neck well over 90 degrees. Try that with a bumper pull. Maybe the delivery new did not know what he was doing.

Bird · Oct 13, 2005

( watching a rental delivery driver try to back a gooseneck trailer into a drive one day. He took about 4 tries where I would have a bumper mount in 1 shot )

New or inexperienced delivery driver, Kurt. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif But this reminds me of when I bought a bass boat a long time ago. We lived in a house in a neighborhood with rear entry garages, a 15' easement or alley, 10' of which was paved and the gas meters were all in the 2.5' on either side of the pavement. When I came down the alley with that boat behind my pickup, my wife was standing out at the fence talking to the lady that lived next door. I stopped, put it in reverse, then backed that boat right into my driveway and right into the garage without stopping. When I got out of the truck, the lady next door said, "I would have bet there was no way you could get that boat into that garage." That'll make your hat size go up 2 sizes. And then of course the first time I went fishing and came back home, it took me at least 4 and maybe 5 tries before I got that boat in the garage. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

KAB · Oct 13, 2005

OK let's get it right. (final reply)
Boomer4Snow
( I Wish I had gotten a gooseneck because the ride is so much better, I seem to be able to back up either one fine. I will say that the 22' bumper pull is easier to balance than the 16' it replaced, and it pulls much nicer, but A GN is worlds smoother. )

And I originally said
( And as already indicated a gooseneck will pull better than a reg hitch mount )

We agree

Boomerang1
( Well, myself being a professional driver, I can tell you that a goose neck will back much better than a bumper pull. You can jack knife a goose neck well over 90 degrees. Try that with a bumper pull. Maybe the delivery new did not know what he was doing.
)
Again I Said
( And as already indicated a gooseneck will pull better than a reg hitch mount )

( You can jack knife a goose neck well over 90 degrees )
As for knowing if a GN is best there is still a variable (yet unlikely for his year) how long is the bed? Some of the newer beds on the crew cab trucks (again probably not his year, but I have no idea who else is making decisions based on this discussion) have beds that GN and 5th wheels will not work with. There can even be discussions about using them with a 6'6" bed. Yes, it can be done. For SOME people I would not recommend it. (Please note that I said SOME and I will not define that person but you would not fall into that category /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

Bird and Boomerang1
( New or inexperienced delivery driver AND Maybe the delivery new did not know what he was doing.)
I have no idea. I was getting frustrated while he had the road blocked.

Finally, I also was the only person to answer part of the original question
( Would I be OK with a hitch mount... )
And my response minuse that part that has brought all of this up
( YES, you can tow a hitch mount with your truck, but it would require weight distributing hitch. Go longer than 18' it gives you room to adjust the load better. And as already indicated a gooseneck will pull better than a reg hitch mount. The down side is that you will not be able to carry much on the bed of the truck. If that is important you will need to either make sure you have room on the trailer or use a hitch mount. )

Any disagreement on this? Even if .1% (or whatever it is, insert your own number) of people that tow do not like a GN hitch would it not be better to test drive it first? It's what most of people tell tractor buyers. Test drive and buy what you like best. I have no gain or loss in the decision, just trying to toss out ideas.

Once again FINAL REPLY /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif.

Kurt

jcmseven · Oct 13, 2005

I really appreciate all the responses so far. It seems the GN is winning the vote, but I have yet another question (actually, two). First, how does mounting a GN hitch in one's pickup bed affect resale value down the road? I do not plan on trading for some time, but I do not wish to plummet my resale value. Are modifications like that smiled, or frowned, upon? Second, how does one go about attaching and detaching such a trailer? Since I have never used one, I do not know the answer to this. I also wanted to answer two questions posed by two of the kind responders. First, with regard to the Banks system, we are already using the pyrometer and the temps are good. The truck will pull a load really well, but I would like to maximize ease and safety, so long as it does not break the bank. Second, to Hunterridgefarm, I reside west of Asheville in NC, and yes, it does appear our demo information is quite similar. Many thanks to those who have responded thus far.

John M

Bird · Oct 13, 2005

John, there are several different brands of GN hitches and some different ways of installing. I'd suggest you visit trailer dealers who sell GN trailers. It would be easier for them to "show" you than for some of us (me, at least) to describe them. The trailers will have jack legs to simply raise them off the hitch ball or lower them onto it, but you do have to remember to lower your tailgate before hooking up or unhooking.

cup149 · Oct 13, 2005

font> Well, myself being a professional driver, I can tell you that a goose neck will back much better than a bumper pull. You can jack knife a goose neck well over 90 degrees. Try that with a bumper pull. Maybe the delivery new did not know what he was doing. )

My wife just went from a bumper pull horse trailer to a gooseneck. I am used to and liked the instant response you get when backing the bumper pull. I have a much harder time getting the gooseneck turned around in our yard. The turning area is narrow, but I could do it with one back up with the bumper pull. It takes two with the gooseneck and it looks like the tires are going to pop off the rims when the truck is 90 degrees to the trailer. Oh well, too bad I can't hook it to the tractor for practice.

beagdog · Oct 13, 2005

A lot will depend on the market you're trying to sell or trade the truck in. If you are selling or trading to someone or to a dealer who deals in work trucks, you'll get back most of your investment in the hitch. If you're selling to someone who doesn't understand the trailer pulling abilties of the truck or to a dealer who sells mostly to the people who buy heavy duty diesel pick-ups and really have no need for a truck, you won't get anything extra. It will never harm the resale of your truck.

I sold a '99 F-350 before my '05 came in about a year ago, and the B&W turnover ball in it was a major selling point. But I live in farm country where everyone who is anyone has at least 1 gooseneck trailer.

Take a look HERE for the turnover ball that leaves the bed of your truck flat when you don't need to pull the trailer. In my opinion (which isn't worth much) this is the best gooseneck hitch out there. And its easily (although not cheaply) converted to fifth wheel if you ever need it.

Gooseneck is the way to go if you have that much truck.

Farmwithjunk · Oct 14, 2005

( John, there are several different brands of GN hitches and some different ways of installing. I'd suggest you visit trailer dealers who sell GN trailers. It would be easier for them to "show" you than for some of us (me, at least) to describe them. The trailers will have jack legs to simply raise them off the hitch ball or lower them onto it, but you do have to remember to lower your tailgate before hooking up or unhooking. )

Bird...?!?!, That last sentence sounded like one with a story attached! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I like the "Hide-A-Ball" hitch myself. It employs holes already in the trucks frame to mount. No drilling frame rails (which voids some vehicle manufacturers warrenties) And the ball will "flip over" to give you a clear truck bed when the hitch isn't in use.

A well designed hitch will place the ball 3" to 5" in front of the rear axle centerline. That gives some minor degree of "weighting" on the front end. That's also a key in taking away the "bobbing" that bumper hitches tend to give a truck/trailer.

I've owned both types of trailers. Still do. There's simply no comparison. The bumper hitch trailer sits until I have no other choice but to use it. (Hauling in hay)

The only possible explaination for someone having a tough time backing a gooseneck would be, MOST TIMES, goosenecks tend to be longer than the bumper hitch trailers they replace. It takes more practice to back a LONG trailer than a shorter one. (Unless it falls into the "too short" catagory)

Bottom line here; The casual observer, without actual "hands on experience" with both types, doesn't see the difference. SOME owners of bumper hitch trailers see them as adaquate, but in a large portion of the cases, wish they'd bought a gooseneck. ALL owners of goosenecks are pleased with their choice. ALL those who have owned, or still own BOTH, favor the gooseneck by a wide margin. I see a trend here.

Egon · Oct 14, 2005

( lower your tailgate before hooking up or unhooking.

)

Some people may forget to raise the tailgate after hitching up. Makes it interesting for sharp turns exspecially when backing up. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Egon /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif