New 2017 Super Duty

[The Fred]

I could care less about cosmetics. Needs to have a very dependable diesel powertrain. Needs to have a dependable and low maintenance suspension, steering, brake assembly. Good seat. Good visibility. "Drive itself" down the road loaded/unloaded. Pretty big list to live up to presented by it's predecessors.

Richard EVERY brand running urea has issues. Reliability is not included in this package. Most urea problems allow the ECM to limit engine starts until it's repaired and not cheap. Usually after the 10th start your behind the tow truck.

7.3 was a great engine (I didn't like the 4 speed auto though) and is lone gone buddy. If I could get a 7.3 with a 6 speed stick or auto I'd be happy.

My 07 Duramax has 9,000 miles and no urea I'll guess I'm keeping it.

Fred

 

[fordmantpw]

I sure wouldn't recommend it. Right around 100k is when the two 6.4s we had started having issue after issue. I know a lot of others that had the same experience. We had several 6.0 fords with issues prior to that. Couldn't give me a ford diesel that wasn't a 7.3 right now. YMMV.

Honestly, with the 6.7L out, I likely wouldn't buy a 6.4L either. Unless you plan to delete the DPF and EGR. Doing that, the 6.4L is dead-nuts reliable. I haven't done it, though I sure would like to.

 

[dodge man]

I had a co-worker whose husband bought a used 6.4 diesel, it was a major problem, I have a seperate post on it.

I'm hoping for Fords sake the 6.7 is better, it seems to be. I'm also curious how well the alum. holds up in the salt belt. I've fought rust on my 2004 Dodge. It would be nice to get a vehicle that you didn't have to worry about rusting.

 

[farm boy00]

Honestly, with the 6.7L out, I likely wouldn't buy a 6.4L either. Unless you plan to delete the DPF and EGR. Doing that, the 6.4L is dead-nuts reliable. I haven't done it, though I sure would like to.

With the 6.0 they are just as good if you bullet proof them and do the head gasket and bolt upgrade

 

[Degolyerent]

With the 6.0 they are just as good if you bullet proof them and do the head gasket and bolt upgrade

They are even better if you add a 12v Cummins

 

[farm boy00]

They are even better if you add a 12v Cummins

If you can afford that

 

[TomSeller]

Too many electronic gizmos (face it...that truck has more electronics than the entire NASA mission control did when we landed on the Moon!)..

Good point. So does my iPhone.

 

[GLyford]

I'm also curious how well the alum. holds up in the salt belt. I've fought rust on my 2004 Dodge. It would be nice to get a vehicle that you didn't have to worry about rusting.

If you're not chasing it in the body, you're chasing it in the frame...long term, I suspect you won't see a big difference. You'll just be able to resell the body when the frame dies.

 

[fordmantpw]

Too many electronic gizmos (face it...that truck has more electronics than the entire NASA mission control did when we landed on the Moon!).

You don't HAVE to have all of the electronic gizmos. They are optional, you know.

 

[fordmantpw]

If you're not chasing it in the body, you're chasing it in the frame...long term, I suspect you won't see a big difference. You'll just be able to resell the body when the frame dies.

Really, how often do we see rusted out frames on trucks from the big 3, especially heavy duty trucks? It's really not a common issue, however body panel rust is, on all makes.

 

[Green Power]

You don't even have to wait 10 years to find a 100k mile truck. Give them 2-4 years. I had a local dealer stick a 07 Silverado half ton with 364,000 miles on the lot and expect to sell it. Now what kind of idiot would buy that?

So did they sell it? How much were they asking? Crew cab?

 

[RollingsFarms]

So did they sell it? How much were they asking? Crew cab?

It was an extended cab 2wd with the Z71 and no it's still sitting there. I'm not sure how much they were asking, they're bad about putting "call for price" on most of their stock online.

 

[700R]

The wheel arch rust is a design/quality problem and not a steel problem. The engineers take shortcuts that favor cost savings over longevity in the salt belt. I would feel better about Ford's competence with aluminum if I hadn't seen so much failure in their use of the stuff over the past 14 years.

It's not a design/quality problem. It's a problem with the owners common sense. If you live in the salt belt, and drive in it...then you have to rinse the salt out of these areas where it sits. Wheel wells, cab corners, rocker panels, bottom lip of doors, tailgate hinge area, bumpers, frame/suspension, etc...

Every time our county puts down salt or brine...I hose off every square inch of the undercarriage of my truck once the snow melts and the roads are dry. I have a '07 Dodge with the undercarriage that looks like it came from Texas...

 

[700R]

You don't HAVE to have all of the electronic gizmos. They are optional, you know.

Not all of them. Ford's site is down, so I'm not 100% sure what the standard features are yet. But I know the 2016's had too many...and they're only gonna add more with each new model


Advancetrac w/Roll Stability Control
Electronic Stability Control (ESC) And Roll Stability Control (RSC)
ABS And Driveline Traction Control
TPMS
Mykey System -inc: Top Speed Limiter, Audio Volume Limiter, Early Low Fuel Warning, Programmable Sound Chimes And Beltminder w/Audio Mute.
8 more airbags that what's needed
LCD screens
Hill start assist
Automatic Transmission
Seatbelt & Headlight reminders
Marker and/or headlights that come on when doors are unlocked or opened
Not to mention that black box that is constantly recording every move you make, so it can be used against you in a court of law.

That's about all I can think of. Standard features on a 2016 F-250 XL 2WD.

 

[fordmantpw]

Not all of them. Ford's site is down, so I'm not 100% sure what the standard features are yet. But I know the 2016's had too many...and they're only gonna add more with each new model


Advancetrac w/Roll Stability Control
Electronic Stability Control (ESC) And Roll Stability Control (RSC)
ABS And Driveline Traction Control
TPMS
Mykey System -inc: Top Speed Limiter, Audio Volume Limiter, Early Low Fuel Warning, Programmable Sound Chimes And Beltminder w/Audio Mute.
8 more airbags that what's needed
LCD screens
Hill start assist
Automatic Transmission
Seatbelt & Headlight reminders
Marker and/or headlights that come on when doors are unlocked or opened
Not to mention that black box that is constantly recording every move you make, so it can be used against you in a court of law.

That's about all I can think of. Standard features on a 2016 F-250 XL 2WD.

Many (not all, but many) of those are required on ALL new vehicles now, so it's not like you can buy a new one without them. Rear camera is coming in a year or two as well.

Electronics, in my experience, have been the most reliable parts of all the vehicles I have owned. They typically fail within the first 3-6 months of usage if they are going to fail. I don't recall any electronic failure on any of my vehicles other than the computer on my old '86 Bronco II at 130k miles. It had many, many mechanical issues before and after that. I've replaced shocks, brakes, transmissions, vacuum valves, etc., on other vehicles, but nothing electronic.

Seriously, your life without electronics today would have you living without electricity, phone service, internet, food (unless you grow your own) and most everything we take for granted today. May as well embrace electronics because they are here to stay.

 

[HHR]

It's not a design/quality problem. It's a problem with the owners common sense. If you live in the salt belt, and drive in it...then you have to rinse the salt out of these areas where it sits. Wheel wells, cab corners, rocker panels, bottom lip of doors, tailgate hinge area, bumpers, frame/suspension, etc... Every time our county puts down salt or brine...I hose off every square inch of the undercarriage of my truck once the snow melts and the roads are dry. I have a '07 Dodge with the undercarriage that looks like it came from Texas...

On '99 to 2010 Super Duty models (not sure about 2011+), there is a piece of foam sandwiched between the inner and outer fender lips. This area holds moisture/salt and is not accessible to be cleaned out. If Ford had rust prevention in mind in the engineering stage of the truck, this foam would not exist.

In MN the snow doesn't melt until the spring and the roads are always in a state of "wet" unless it is below zero (and car wash is closed). Washing the truck often gets delayed for these reasons and It is not unreasonable to expect a truck to hold up to this "abuse."

 

[TomSeller]

It's not a design/quality problem. It's a problem with the owners common sense. If you live in the salt belt, and drive in it...then you have to rinse the salt out of these areas where it sits. Wheel wells, cab corners, rocker panels, bottom lip of doors, tailgate hinge area, bumpers, frame/suspension, etc...

Every time our county puts down salt or brine...I hose off every square inch of the undercarriage of my truck once the snow melts and the roads are dry. I have a '07 Dodge with the undercarriage that looks like it came from Texas...

When I lived out west on the salt water the local boat launch had a under carriage sprayer. A wide spot in the road just as you were leaving the boat launch where you pulled to the side and fresh water would spray off the undercarriage of the back of your truck, the underside of your boat and the trailer. Worked really well. You just had to rinse your motor and the trailer tubes out and put it away.

 

[Rustyiron]

once the snow melts and the roads are dry.

In some places that can mean that sometime around Christmas to late March, your pissin in the wind washing your vehicle. But I hear ya:thumbsup:

 

[GLyford]

Really, how often do we see rusted out frames on trucks from the big 3, especially heavy duty trucks? It's really not a common issue, however body panel rust is, on all makes.

Here in the northeast, it is VERY common. Google "frame rust new england" and you will get 3/4 of a million hits...

 

[700R]

Many (not all, but many) of those are required on ALL new vehicles now, so it's not like you can buy a new one without them. Rear camera is coming in a year or two as well.

Electronics, in my experience, have been the most reliable parts of all the vehicles I have owned. They typically fail within the first 3-6 months of usage if they are going to fail. I don't recall any electronic failure on any of my vehicles other than the computer on my old '86 Bronco II at 130k miles. It had many, many mechanical issues before and after that. I've replaced shocks, brakes, transmissions, vacuum valves, etc., on other vehicles, but nothing electronic.

Seriously, your life without electronics today would have you living without electricity, phone service, internet, food (unless you grow your own) and most everything we take for granted today. May as well embrace electronics because they are here to stay.

And you are paying for all those requirements too. $100k F-150 here we come! I never said all electronics were bad. However, vehicles are not the place for most of them IMO. The ones I really hate, are the ones that disable your vehicle (won't start/run). What you describe with your B-II are wear items. Every vehicle has those whether it's a 1970 F150, or a 2016 Bentley. However the 2016 has more computer power in it than NASA had during the Moon landing. It's just that much more to potentially go wrong, cost you thousands in repairs, and that much more dumbed-down drivers are going to get.

I wonder what the next generation gear-head is going to do? The kid just out of high school...or the 20-something who chose this hobby. Vehicles of the 60's-80's will either be scrap, or priced too high by then. New vehicles will need thousands of dollars in computers, software, and programmers to do anything with...not to mention specialty tools to work on them...

Anyways...sorry for derailing this thread. I'll go back to changing the fuel filter on my carburetor now...