New 2025 Ram 1500 with hurricane engine.

[KennyG]

But adding a turbo requires more fuel (at higher output). Isn’t your statement skewed.

I think that's why trucks like the eco-boost get relatively poor gas mileage when towing, but a lot better unloaded (almost never on boost). Which is why the turbo engine makes sense for occasional towing but the diesel or V-8 is probably better if you tow a lot.

As an unrelated side note, I saw a news item on TV about the Stellantis CEO leaving. They illustrated it with images of a Ford dealer lot. Where do they find these people?

 

[tacticalturnip]

In the US, it is a disaster. When sales are down 42%, way more than other makers, something has to be done. My cousin bought a Ram 3500 because the price was right (below cost), but that doesn't help the companies bottom line if that is how they sell vehicles.

"In North America its revenues collapsed by 42 percent to $13.47 billion because of a fall in sales and price cuts to clear its stock of vehicles."

Sales Slump 27% At Carmaker Stellantis

Oh wow, maybe I'll take my F350 in and look at a 2500; I really liked my RAM 1500.

 

[orezok]

Okay, yes... his statement has a flaw, if you let the grammar police have at it. But I think we can assume he's talking about the old displacement versus turbo debate, and the cold hard fact that, over the full range of driving requirements, a turbo on a smaller displacement can achieve similar peak horsepower with less average fuel usage.

But adding more fuel implies higher output for normally aspirated, similar for turbo. Higher output is NOT average.

 

[WinterDeere]

But adding more fuel implies higher output for normally aspirated, similar for turbo. Higher output is NOT average.

I'm not following the argument, but it sounds like you're letting semantics get it the way of real-world advantage.

To produce more horsepower, you must use more fuel. After all, horsepower is nothing but the conversion of chemical potential energy to mechanical kinetic energy. We all get that.

But in the real world, you will use less fuel over the lifespan of a vehicle, if it has a smaller-displacement engine with a turbo, versus a larger displacement engine making similar peak horsepower without aid of a turbo.

 

[orezok]

You seem to consider “average” while the poster discussed “added fuel”. That is not the same thing

 

[WinterDeere]

You seem to consider “average” while the poster discussed “added fuel”. That is not the same thing

Yep. Just guessing at his intention, as it's what makes the argument reason out.

 

[ruffdog]

Oh wow, maybe I'll take my F350 in and look at a 2500; I really liked my RAM 1500.

When you go looking at vehicles, pay attention to how long it has sat on the lot. Depending how the dealer finances it's stock, they may be more willing to deal more on the vehicles that have sat there longer. Some of these dealers (some going out of business) have vehicles sitting for 250-350+ days.

 

[Blue Mule]

Now that's funny disaster ..Maybe USA will bail out Ford and GM again how's that for disaster ? LMAO.. PS see a chit ton of jeeps still on the road can't say they have fallen off any cliff.

What you're not seeing though is NEW Jeeps on the road. As already mentioned, sales are falling quarter after quarter for Jeep and Ram. They're the ONLY domestic brand showing losses every quarter and this has been going on for 2 to 3 years. It is a disaster. They're scrambling trying to figure out a plan. That's why the Charger EV has been delayed and the ICE version is being sped up. It's why Jeep base pricing has been slashed. It's ultimately why the CEO is gone. They're in trouble.

I test drove a 2025 Ram 1500. 14 miles on the odometer. Wind noise was so bad around the windshield I couldn't even have a conversation with the salesman. The quality is horrendous now. The UAW workers are ticked off because the company is forcing them to pass junk down the line that even UAW wouldn't normally pass.

The only automaker in worse condition right now is Nissan. Their CEO says they've got 14 months to "survive" unless things somehow miraculously turn around right now.

In the U.S. market you have to build what people want. Otherwise you're cooked. Neither Stellantis or Nissan got the memo.

 

[deserteagle71]

What you're not seeing though is NEW Jeeps on the road. As already mentioned, sales are falling quarter after quarter for Jeep and Ram. They're the ONLY domestic brand showing losses every quarter and this has been going on for 2 to 3 years. It is a disaster.

It's a case of pushing the pricing just to see just how far they could go before people refused to buy.

I have a 2006 Wrangler Rubicon. Two years ago I was thinking I'd like a new one so I priced it out with the options I required. It came to $71,000 before taxes! If I wanted the V8 engine in it, starting price was $85,000! That was two years ago; I'm still driving my 2006.

The selling price doubled...and the quality went way down. Jeep forums are filled with people crying about the problems they are having with their new Wranglers.

 

[coobie]

What you're not seeing though is NEW Jeeps on the road. As already mentioned, sales are falling quarter after quarter for Jeep and Ram. They're the ONLY domestic brand showing losses every quarter and this has been going on for 2 to 3 years. It is a disaster. They're scrambling trying to figure out a plan. That's why the Charger EV has been delayed and the ICE version is being sped up. It's why Jeep base pricing has been slashed. It's ultimately why the CEO is gone. They're in trouble.

I test drove a 2025 Ram 1500. 14 miles on the odometer. Wind noise was so bad around the windshield I couldn't even have a conversation with the salesman. The quality is horrendous now. The UAW workers are ticked off because the company is forcing them to pass junk down the line that even UAW wouldn't normally pass.

The only automaker in worse condition right now is Nissan. Their CEO says they've got 14 months to "survive" unless things somehow miraculously turn around right now.

In the U.S. market you have to build what people want. Otherwise you're cooked. Neither Stellantis or Nissan got the memo.

Now thats odd Drove a 2025 GMC Denali 1/2 ton & experienced the same thing you did with the Ram you drove.IMHO you can get a lemon in any brand ..