New Agco Sub-Compact and "B" Versions are out now

hobbyfarm · Oct 24, 2005

New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

In this PDF of the latest update of the ST series, there is an ST22A model that is a clone of the MF GC2300 subcompact. On page 13 of the brochure, it states (in fine print under the loader/backhoe compatability chart) that an ST22A TLB will be available in 2006. (personally, I like the red... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif better)

Also, the other ST models have been updated to include the factory cab option. Just like the Massey Ferguson 1500 series.

If Challengers are more your cup of tea, this PDF shows the new factory cab versions. But, Yellow has no GC2300 sub-compact clone...yet.

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

JerryG · Oct 25, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

I have to say that I wish AGCO would get their collective acts together. They have spent so much money on this AGCO garbage that could have been put into R&D or something else it is amazing. They are so bent on having a tractor with their name on it that they can't even see that all their butter comes for Massey. If it wasn't for their Massey Ferguson devision there wouldn't even be an AGCO and they wouldn't have had the money to buy the other 20 companies that they own. Wake up AGCO and smell the roses, get rid of the AGCO name plate and put the money where it belongs and back were it came from Massey Ferguson.
Off the stump now.

JerryG · Oct 25, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

hobbyfarm,
I didn't mean anything bad directed toward you in any way. The AGCO badge is a real sore spot for me. All information that is posted is appreciated.

hobbyfarm · Oct 25, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

Jerry,
Not a problem from me. I tend to agree with you, I just wish the powers that be had kept the old AC name as it was a well recognized brand name with a lot of loyal owners.
Here in my neck of the woods (around a 60 mile area), we started with 3 AC dealers in the '60s, then 2 in the '80s, and now, all we have now is - the last AC dealer jumped on the MF wagon about 15 years ago, and his business has picked up. I have not seen many new Allis' in many years here. I've seen a couple of Deutz - Allis' but almost everthing down here is green or red (CaseIH), but the MF dealer is making progress - I always see new equipment and used trade-ins on his lot.
I kind of think that it's the corp that is killing the name AC and straining the other names to keep the buffet of brand names that they have afloat.
Agco just announced on their website that they've come up with a "fresh, new, modern" logo for the brand name.
You know a move like that costs a good chunk of change.

Hard · Oct 29, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

( I have to say that I wish AGCO would get their collective acts together. They have spent so much money on this AGCO garbage that could have been put into R&D or something else it is amazing. They are so bent on having a tractor with their name on it that they can't even see that all their butter comes for Massey. If it wasn't for their Massey Ferguson devision there wouldn't even be an AGCO and they wouldn't have had the money to buy the other 20 companies that they own. Wake up AGCO and smell the roses, get rid of the AGCO name plate and put the money where it belongs and back were it came from Massey Ferguson.
Off the stump now. )

Jerry, what's wrong with the AGCO tractors? I just checked out a ST34a and the ST22 today at a AGCO/Kioti dealer today. I have to say I was very impressed with the AGCO tractors. The are very well put together, they operate very smooth and the shifter on the ST34A was very precise and shifted easily. The high quality of the AGCOs stuck out like a sore thumb compared to the Kioti DKs and CKs parked nearby. It was a great opportumity to compare both tractor brands. I really didn't appreciate how well the MFs and AGCOs were built until I could compare the AGCOs side by side with the well thought of(???)Kioti tractors.

I like the MFs just as well (I know the MFs and AGCOs are alike) as the AGCOs but the local MF dealer is on the high side on tractor pricing. The AGCO dealer gives me the opportunity to get a better deal on the same tractor....but in orange.

The ST22 is to small but I think that ST34A with a loader could be the orange tractor for me.

JerryG · Oct 29, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

 Jerry, what's wrong with the AGCO tractors? 
There is nothing wrong with the AGCO tractors. The problem is that they have squandered resources that could have been put to better use. The only reason is because they wanted their name on a tractor. All or almost all of their money for acquisitions has come for Massey. Massey is their cash cow. They should have put the money back into Massey instead on being conceited and blowing it on another line of tractors just to have their own name plate.

Hard · Oct 29, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

They're really just rebadging MFs with the AGCO brand and color with some slight grill and panel differences. What resources are being squandered? It's like Ford and Mercury. Mercurys are Fords with some slightly different body work.

JerryG · Oct 30, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

Some of them has different engines but they have and are spending money to promote more and different dealers in the same towns as MF dealers. They are changing things even in the MF dealerships such as parts box, print etc. Anytime that you add a different brand a lot of money is spend. A new brand doesn't grow on trees, they cost money. I don't have anything against the tractors, they are just Masseys in different paint for the most part.

gamble77 · Oct 30, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

Well........maybe there is a reason they are starting to push AGCO.....

JerryG · Oct 30, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

 Well........maybe there is a reason they are starting to push AGCO.....

What is the reason?

mark777 · Oct 31, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

Model for model, are they cheaper, or more expensive?? I mean surely they wouldn't be cheaper as they would be cutting their nose off....??

What about after the sale? Are warranties, maintenance and service techs the same? How about the Agco line brought to a MF dealer for service and warranty work?

I can imagine (you being on the inside) that the problems could be a nightmare.

While searching for AC 5020 parts, the most help I received was from a MF parts man who was limited by the Agco inventory. He was confident that the parts were out there, but the Agco software limited his search by not listing NOS. He even did a nationwide search with very limited results...He blamed Agco for no longer supporting the older Allis Chalmers.

Mark

JerryG · Oct 31, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

Model for model, are they cheaper, or more expensive?? I mean surely they wouldn't be cheaper as they would be cutting their nose off....??

What about after the sale? Are warranties, maintenance and service techs the same? How about the Agco line brought to a MF dealer for service and warranty work?
Everything is about the same. As far as warranty work I don't know but it is my impression that they have to be taken to the same badge.

hobbyfarm · Nov 1, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

( While searching for AC 5020 parts, the most help I received was from a MF parts man who was limited by the Agco inventory. He was confident that the parts were out there, but the Agco software limited his search by not listing NOS. He even did a nationwide search with very limited results...He blamed Agco for no longer supporting the older Allis Chalmers.)

That's the problem here, the Allis-Chalmers dealer here dropped orange like a bad habit, all of a sudden. This after being an AC dealer for 40+ years. Now, who supports the brand? Nearest dealer now is 322 miles away in Bryan, Texas. Did AGCO pressure the dealer to drop AC? The dealer in question became a Massey dealer, but what about the many customers around here who have the REAL orange? They are left out in the weather. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Why didn't the dealer just add Massey and run both brands - sort of like the auto super markets that have Pontiac, Buick, and Olds?

AGCO is making some boneheaded decisions, and anyone doing business with them is paying for this boneheadedness. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Jerry is right, Massey is their cash cow and it is pretty stable - for now. All the other brands are just trimmins (parasites??) of the MF brand.

hobbyfarm · Nov 1, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

I just did a dealer search -
and those two step-children of Agco, Fendt and Valtra both have closer dealers than the established brand name Allis-Chalmers.
Funny thing is - farmers tend to be set in their ways. And they tend to be very loyal to their particular brands - unless outside forces push them away (like dealers who drop brands). Things like introducing a new, unheard of tractor brand from half way around the world (much less TWO brands) seems very poor decision making at the corporate level.
Why not develop the brands you have into something that will sell? Rather than go shopping around the world for "unique" stuff to put on the dealers lot. Who knows, maybe in the future, AGCO will be shopping in Russia or China for an "exclusive" brand.
B o n e h e a d e d decisions. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

GeneD14 · Nov 1, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

( If it wasn't for their Massey Ferguson devision there wouldn't even be an AGCO and they wouldn't have had the money to buy the other 20 companies that they own. )

Lets not forget that in the 1980's Massey Ferguson was bought out because they were in financial trouble. Looking and AGCO's financial reports it is impossible to figure out which brand is the most profitable full channel.
That being said I agree that it is more cost effective to manufacture and sell one brand instead of several. The problem with that logic is that most American farmers are deathly loyal to their color or brand of tractor. AGCO stands for Allis Gleaner Company. To this day many farmers will buy an AGCO because it is orange (just like the old Allis Chalmers) and prides itself as carrying on that lineage.

JerryG · Nov 1, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

The AGCO of today has almost nothing to do with the Allis or with Gleaner of yesterday. There was a few executives from those old companies that had bought the rights and very little else. With about 100K in sales a year they put up their homes, land and cars to raise enough money to buy MF from Varity Group. Since then they have bought last of my count was 19 other companies. Most of them have been good purchases and will make AGCO stronger in the future. Fendt and Valtra have been good examples of good buys. Fendt has the technology and the best transmission in the world and when they bought Valtra they got a very very good engine. Now they have engines back in house again.
I don't have anything against these purchases and I really feel that they will be good for the company. What I do have a problem with is bring a new brand out that can't support itself and using MF money and resources to do it, just so they can have their OWN brand.

Gator6x4 · Nov 1, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

AGCO owns MF. Purchased in 1994. They (AGCO) owns a lot of the agriculture equipment companies we all grew up with. We in our search of saving a dollar have eliminated a lot of the old equipment manafacturing companies.

See this link for a history on AGCO:

http://www.agcocorp.com//default.cfm?pid=1.16.4

hobbyfarm · Nov 1, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

( AGCO owns MF. Purchased in 1994.)

Gator6x4,
I'm very familiar with their history. I just don't care for their way of buying up everything.
Sort of reminds me of an inexperienced person playing Monopoly for the first time. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Also, it can't be good for business when you all of a sudden have dealers close up and start dealing something else.

Picture this:
Paco & Conchita run a tortilla factory, but one day, they decide to start making MP3 players. It may just be me, but the company's assets don't really lend themselves to electronics production.
(to me, this makes about as much sense as what AGCO is doing.) Granted, Jerry did make some sense out of the strategic moves (engines from here, transmissions from there.) they are making, but this seems to be an expensive way to go about it. You have farmers who for a couple of generations used Allis-Chalmers equipment, who have purchased multiple units over the years, and now, the closest dealer is half-way across the state (the state of TEXAS, not a county-sized state like Maryland /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif). YOUR dealer is now selling some other something and can't even get you parts. Deere and IH are right down the street and are stable businesses.
This is what I'm talking about, 'not a good way to do business.' Loosing customers is never good business practice - it costs way too much money to get them back. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif If they loose enough clients, they'll be for sell. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

JerryG · Nov 1, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

Those are well respected brands on the other side of the pond. We have to remember that it is a world economy now, not just the USA. MF sells more tractors in the rest of the world than they do in the U.S. I am sure that is some of the reason they bought Fendt and Valtra as well as being able to use the engines and transmissions. It may not sound like it, but I have very little (other than the AGCO tractor brand thing) to complain about when it comes to the way AGCO does business. They have taken several companies that were not doing very well and turned them around as a whole. Ratliff did a very good job at buying companies and integrating them into one company.

hobbyfarm · Nov 2, 2005

Re: New Agco Sub-Compact and \"B\" Versions are out now

Jerry,
I can see it now, Allis-Chalmers are going to be the next big thing in the vintage tractor collector's collections.
With the closing of so many dealers, there will be a bunch of orange sittin around pushing up hackberry trees /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif