New "B" series catalog..

[IslandTractor]

I upgraded to the new seat on the B7800 but I really do not understand what the big dead was? The old seat was OK. Heck, the Grand "L" came with a seat having staples in the back that were "pre-rusted". I was not happy about that and told the factory that if it was the computer industry it would be a design "QAN". But I never had an issue with the "old B-series" seat. I must be missing something?
I am 5'11" 200 so maybe they designed the old seat for some one of average height and overweight?

Check out the Kioti suspension seat that comes standard on the CK line. I'm not sure what it cost Kioti but it is a serious upgrade over the old CK seats (pre 2005) which were virtually identical to the B series seats.

 

[Roadkill95]

I wasn't trying to start a color war. Besides, the comment that I repeated came from a Kubota dealer when explaining why position control was not necessary on the B class machines. Apparently most B class owners don't use the 3PT hitch anyway but simply have a MMM.

The B's are excellent reliable tractors I was just surprised that when Kubota did a revamp of the whole line that they changed so very little. As noted in my earlier post they did at least one thing that is really good which is to go from two speed to three speed HST. However they didn't up the loader capacity by more than a few pounds, did not fix the dumb quarter inching valve thing, and did not add a suspension seat. They seem to have focused on cosmetics. Maybe that is a smart move in the vein of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I was just surprised that after five or so years since the last update that this was all they did.

Regarding JD, Kubota and Kioti....people have their favorite colors. Kioti is the newer kid on the block and many folks prefer the established brands just like they favored Ford and Chevy over Toyota and Honda thirty years ago. I think anyone looking at the 20-23hp range CUT will find that JD and Kubota offerings are excellent and are focused or opitimzed for mowing with MMM. The Kioti CK20 is heavier, with stronger FEL and has some very nice features missing on the other entry level tractors...try a suspension seat sometime and you'll see what I mean. All these Asian made tractors are good reliable machines but they are aimed at different niches. Performance wise Kioti gets more competition from Mahindra on "utility" tractor grounds than from green or the other orange. I stand behind the notion that the CK20 stands out as a utility tractor in this group while the JD and B series stand out as mowing machines. The Kioti can mow and the JDs and B series can clearly accomplish utility tractor tasks, my point is just that each excels on different sides of that dicotomy.

Most that I know with these cuts use it for mowing and kioti has no MMM, a deal breaker for me for sure.
Biggest problem I see with the brand is dealer network, If I need parts for a deere or kubota I can get them from several dealers within 30 min drive. If they don't start grabbing big market share soon the dealers that are left will be gone, in my opinion kind of like buying a daewoo car. JMO

 

[IslandTractor]

Most that I know with these cuts use it for mowing and kioti has no MMM, a deal breaker for me for sure.
Biggest problem I see with the brand is dealer network, If I need parts for a deere or kubota I can get them from several dealers within 30 min drive. If they don't start grabbing big market share soon the dealers that are left will be gone, in my opinion kind of like buying a daewoo car. JMO

I agree completely on the mower issue. The B's and BX's are the way to go both for weight and implements like MMM if you are primarily mowing. The CK has other strengths and advantages but you'd never get it up to B standard as a finish/lawn mower. I think that was one of my points earlier in this thread.

Parts are really not much of an issue at all for the Kiotis these days. For starters I use a dealer 300 miles away for parts even though there are several within 30 miles simply because in this era of UPS/FedEx I can get the parts from my favorite dealer without leaving the house or wasting gas. Additionally, Bobcat now carries the Kioti CK line (painted white but otherwise the tractors are identical and built on the same line in Korea). That gives you another pretty well established parts counter to deal with.

 

[bandit67]

Saw a couple of dealers today at the National Western Stock Show. They said new B series brochures are printed and ready to go out to dealers in the next week or so. One dealer said when he ordered his B's, delivery date was scheduled for January, but he said he'd expect sometime in February. Another dealer told me he expected his in by March or April, so we will see.

I knew a lot more about the new B's than the 2 guys at one of the booths did, and one of them had even been to the dealer show. Neither knew that Kubota developed a new backhoe for them, that the tractor seat was also used for backhoe operation, or that the loader joystick was integrated into the tractor near the seat. Needless to say, none of the first batch was ordered with the backhoe.

Think I may purchase out of state this time around. Tired of the dealers out here not knowing what's going on until the machines hit their lot. With the prices they charge out here, I'd expect to get a bit more knowledge out of them. Many of them also seem to confuse the features from one machine to the next. I don't get it - if I was a tractor salesman, I'd know my product lines inside & out - what could be more fun than getting paid to reasearch and test tractors all the time?

Also saw the new Bobcat/Kioti cuts. That dealer quoted me $19k for the 30 hp machine with loader - seemed pretty steep. Pretty much looked like a Kioti CK30 (from what I've seen in pictures) with different paint. The Bobcats had the suspension seat too.

 

[IslandTractor]

Also saw the new Bobcat/Kioti cuts. That dealer quoted me $19k for the 30 hp machine with loader - seemed pretty steep. Pretty much looked like a Kioti CK30 (from what I've seen in pictures) with different paint. The Bobcats had the suspension seat too.

That is steep. I paid less for a DK40se (41hp) with loader.

 

[ovrszd]

I guess I understand how deleting a true suspension seat would save a ton of $$ for the mfr. I've never had one, so I don't know what I'm missing.

I don't know how the clutch would be necessary on the B3030, since it is hydro and has an independent pto.

Telescoping steering wheel - I can do without that as long as I get a tilt wheel.

What do you mean by true power steering - isn't the B3030's steering wheel a no-effort fingertip turn lock-to-lock, even when not moving? - the BX's do that, and so do many other subcompacts and compacts.

The seat issue is a big deal to me. Call me shallow. After sitting on my tractor all day, I never end the day with a nagging negative thought about the seat. My seat takes shock load off my back and never tries to throw me off or slide me forward. Ask 3030 owners about that.

The clutch although not necessary, certainly is important to me. It removes all shock load on PTO equipment because of being able to engage gently. It also allows you to clean a post hole with a PHD much better than without. Not a necessity, but again, much more user friendly and adaptable.

Telescoping steering wheel is extremely handy if there are multiple operators. I'm 5'10" and my wife is 5'1". Ours gets used often.

True power steering means the 2910 has steering just like your truck. The steering wheel directs a gear box that is directly connected to the front wheels. That gear box uses hydraulic assist. It's precise and powerful and fast. The 3030 and BX models use a simple hydraulic actuator located under the steering wheel and a hydraulic cylinder guiding the front wheels. With that system the steering wheel is constantly moving when going straight, a real PITA if you use a spinner knob. It also steers heavier and with limited at best precision. For example, try driving in a straight line in high range, fast HST. You just can't do it with the 3030 steering, constantly wandering. Again, not a necessity, but why go backwards in design?

So my bottom line here is those changes were not necessary on Kubota's part. None of them made the 3030 a better tractor. None of them made the 3030 easier or more comfortable to operate. They were all about profit. Subtle losses to the consumer that hopefully weren't noticed. Insults my intelligence to realize Kubota in an attempt to compete is forgetting what got them where they are today. I know it sounds unimportant, but to me it's not.

 

[Buster57]

Interesting Ovrszd.

I came a hair away from buying a B2910 in 2001 but went with the Grand L instead. In hindsight I should have gone with the "B" series. The dealer/owner gave me such a deal I am still amazed at the figures, so I did not get hurt. I just bought the wrong tractor for my property. Too big and under powered for the steep hill I live on.

What I am still waiting to see is a Kubota version of the John Deere 955, but more modern with Kubota reliability and service support. If Kubota offered a "B3420" with 34 H-P and say 27 at the PTO, with GVW around 2000 pounds, I would buy it today.

I guess I will have to wait. Mean time the B7800 is extremely nice.

 

[bandit67]

I was very impressed with the power and abilities of the B7800 rental on my mountain property. And that was immediately after running an L35 and a full size New Holland TLB on my property over the previous 3 weeks, so I think that speaks volumes about the B7800.

 

[ovrszd]

A friend of my Son's has a JD4310. He swears my 2910 has more HP than his tractor. Of course that's not true. But it sure seems that way. I agree with you guys, a slightly heavier, little more HP 2910/3030 would be nice. My 2910 rarely comes up short on HP, but sometimes is a little light in the pants for the task I'm trying to do with it. Otherwise the 2910/3030/7800 is a great match of HP/Weight and an awesome tractor. Just gotta decide how important bells and whistles are to ya.

 

[ChuckinNH]

It would seem that the new 2920 on the way is going to be a slightly smaller version of that hp/weight ratio. It should have good power for a small chipper, and should run any implement suited to it's size quite well. I do agree with ovrszd that it's a shame that we have to lose good, solid features to gain some of the things we are looking for. Perhaps there isn't enough competition in this class tractor?

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

That gear box uses hydraulic assist. It's precise and powerful and fast. The 3030 and BX models use a simple hydraulic actuator located under the steering wheel and a hydraulic cylinder guiding the front wheels.

Most manufacturers reguard hydrostatic power stearing as an improvment over hydraulic. Each design has its advantages and disadvantages. If you look at the economey tractor line, most have the hydraulic stearing that you seem to like. I don't know the parts cost, but its probably cheaper if its on the economey tractor line.

 

[IslandTractor]

It would seem that the new 2920 on the way is going to be a slightly smaller version of that hp/weight ratio. It should have good power for a small chipper, and should run any implement suited to it's size quite well. I do agree with ovrszd that it's a shame that we have to lose good, solid features to gain some of the things we are looking for. Perhaps there isn't enough competition in this class tractor?

I think Kubota has decided they have a large enough lead in this business that they only need to compete head to head with JD. The new B series update does a credible job of matching or surpassing the roughly equivalent JD2320 and 2520 series. Both the Bs and the JDs are relatively light and focused on mowing (note Kubota's new drive over MMM but lack of position control etc). Kubota does not seem as concerned about the heavier weight CUTs like Kioti and Mahindra that offer more features/bang for the buck (though dealer dependent on pricing) and is not attempting to even match those in many feature areas much less surpass them. Neither Kubota nor JD really sell a tractor to compete primarily with the CK or 1500 series (heavy small CUTs).

Kubota is definitely number one in CUTs and their game plan has worked so far. Bring in customers with BX and B then upsell to L and M when the customer needs more than a machine optimized for mowing. They've never had serious competition from anyone except JD and the current updates indicate they are still primarily concerned only about green. I'd guess Kubota and JD will be numbers one and two for a long time but that their market shares will be nibbled (?bitten off) by the rising sales of other value oriented brands like the Korean Kioti and Indian Mahindra. At least with the Korean company that sort of parallels what has happened in the car industry.

 

[lawn_king]

I have read this entire thread (lots of good info & insight), I guess im a little confused about the new B line up. Will kubota build a 2620 and a 2630?

 

[bandit67]

Yes. The 2630 remains the 'deluxe' 26 hp B.

The 2620 is considered the 'standard' 26 hp B, and is a smaller, lighter machine with lower capacities throughout. Two quite different machines. The 2620 is basically an updated 7510 with more engine hp, but identical FEL and 3pt capacities, new backhoe with a single reversible seat for tractor & backhoe operation, a new integrated FEL joystick, and a new 3 range hydro. Other than that, pretty much a 7510 sizewise and ability wise. Guess Kubota wanted to update the model numbers too.

 

[lawn_king]

Thank you.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I think Kubota has decided they have a large enough lead in this business that they only need to compete head to head with JD.

I think thats absolutly true. Besides Kubota and Deere, every other company in this business has a extremely small impact on overall tractor sales. If you have 50% or more market share with your product, why build a tractor like the guys who are catching single digit market shares.

 

[ChuckinNH]

Because you slowly start losing the people that are part of that great market share? I owned a Kubota, really like Kubota's, but also want the functional features that I can get at the green store, and other places. Attractive plastic hoods don't do much for me, especially if replacing a headlight costs as much as it does for a B3030.

 

[IslandTractor]

I think thats absolutly true. Besides Kubota and Deere, every other company in this business has a extremely small impact on overall tractor sales. If you have 50% or more market share with your product, why build a tractor like the guys who are catching single digit market shares.

Neil, you sound like an executive from General Motors dismissing Toyota and Honda in the 1970s.

 

[Volfandt]

you sound like an executive from General Motors dismissing Toyota and Honda in the 1970s.

And I bet the former leadership of GM, Ford & Chrysler didn't tie their golden parachutes to the performance of their former companys either.......
It wasn't like they didn't have an inkling that the market was going to change drastically. VW started chipping away at the large gas guzzlers in the 60's.

With the exception of the suspension seat (which was somewhat addressed by a replacement seat program), I'd Kubota knows full well the market their targeting.
The new B's address several shortcomings in the market share they basically invented and dominate.
1) the 3 sp HST is a step above everyone. A major deal maker.....
2) the HP to weight ratio keeps them at the top of the primary mowing customer base. A lesser deal maker.
3) the suspended MMM imroves their lead in the same primary mowing customer base. A major deal maker (anyone see a pattern here.)
4) slopped ergonomics to keep up with the Jones'. Theres been many references here where buyers used "a better line of site" to justify purchasing other than Kubota.
5) An integrated BH. This will steal BX TLB sales...

And not surprisingly what the new B's don't address, i.e. more FEL capacity and 3PH position control IS addressed by their premium B models.

Seems Kubota has the small CUT field covered.......

 

[ChuckinNH]

I agree that all the things that Kubota has done for the new B series will look really good in a catalog!
1. Three speed hydro...... It seems the speed in mid range is 1mph faster than low range on their other three speed tractors?



2 . Hp to weight ratio is very good with the B series, and that's a fact. It looks to me like the new hydro steals a lot more of that hp though, so other than the 2920 things haven't changed much.


3. The suspended mower deck, easy adjustment, and drive over feature are really nice improvements in that area for those that mow with this size tractor.


4. Ergonomics are important, and I expect that the longer wheelbase will result in more room in the operator area than the current B7xxx series. Nice


5. I am one that waited for months to see what the new bh would bring. Though I really like the close coupled mounting, and 4pt mount, I am a little disappointed that they reduced both the digging forces, and swing angle of the boom. How much do you pay for 10 degrees more swing, and a few hundred pounds in digging force over the BX class machines? I found two problems with the limited swing on my BX. The first was that it made positioning much more critical. The second is that in order to be able to place the spoils with more room, I found myself often digging at an angle to the long axis of the tractor, and that is not the best situation, and is perhaps one situation Kubota was hoping to reduce, or eliminate by limiting the swing in the first place.

Since the inception of the 7500 series there has been an explosion in attachments for loaders, and the 3pt hitch for small tractors. The BX series showed many new owners what the capabilities, and versatility of these small machines could really be. My earlier comments reflected some of the things that those people upgrading from the BX or similar brand series might be looking for......... while keeping the nice mowing features they have come to like, and perhaps more importantly use to justify their purchase in the first place.

Like other Kubota fans, I am wholeheartedly in favor of all the things that Kubota has done with this upgrade......... I am just picking nits.