New Farm

[FarmerFrank]

I want to turn a pasture into cropland. What are the steps involved. What size of machine is needed to till up rocky soil and what implements should I use in what order to get ready to plant a cover crop to till in for next springs planting?

Frank Dwyer

 

[cowboydoc]

Frank,
A couple of things you're going to have to do. First of all if your soil is really rocky you're going to have to remove all of the rocks before you have much hope of farming it. What kind of crops are you planning on raising? Depending on that rocks will tear up equipment pretty fast. Let's assume that you have all the rocks gone. Now it's going to depend on what you're going to plant on how you go about preparing the soil. You're going to need a soil test done if you're really serious about raising crops. That way you will know what you need to apply to get a good crop. Just to start out with you're going to a really good disc and plow. Without knowing your crop I'll start with just the basics of the ground prep to get ready. Also are you going to have to irrigate or not? First of all you need to get rid of the pasture. Whenever I turn pasture into crop ground I like to spray it first to kill everything there. Roundup works good for this. Next after it is sprayed and everything has died then it's time to plow the ground under. Then you need to disc and harrow the ground smooth. Depending on your soil sample you may need to have some things put on before you plow and then it will get into the soil real good. You can also put on afterwards. From here it will depend on the crop you intend to raise. Usually the only "cover crop" that is planted is either rye or winter wheat. Again depends on what you're going to grow. If you're going to plant either of those you're going to need a good planter as well. Then you will have to have a combine to harvest the rye or wheat in the spring and plow, disc, and harrow again to get ready for the crop you are going to have to plant in the spring.

The other way is no till farming but now you're going to need some other specialized equipment to do this. You need really good planters here and nothing short of a near new one is going to do a good job and they are very expensive. Unless you are going to be alot of farming not very cost effective.

The third way is to just rent the ground out or to have someone come in and do the work for you either on shares or by an acre basis.

 

[FarmerFrank]

Richard,
Thank you for the advice. I am going to hire someone with a large machine to come in and till up my ground and remove the rocks. I will create raised beds after this is done.
Frank

 

[FarmerFrank]

Richard,
Thank you for the advice. I am going to hire someone with a large machine to come in and till up my ground and remove the rocks. I will create raised beds after this is done.
Frank

 

[Bill_Ryan]

IMO, stay away from Roundup or any other product by Monsanto.

Turn it over repeatedly over time instead. Then plant your cover crop (which you'll turn over later prior to planting.

Better for you, better for mother nature and better for those eating the crops you grow.

Bill

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>IMO, stay away from Roundup or any other product by Monsanto</font color=blue>

OK, Bill, why?

Bird

 

[ejb]

>>IMO, stay away from Roundup or any other product by Monsanto

I don't know why he was suggesting staying away, but that is one thing I have noticed on this forum that has always bothered me a bit...almost without exception the recommendations (at least the ones I have read) have suggested saturating your soil with roundup in order to get it ready for planting, now I am sure it probably works pretty well, and does a good job killing the weeds (and everything else), but isn't one reason to have a home garden to get plenty of healthy/fresh vegetables that you can feed your family? I for one can't imagine starting out a new garden with dumping piles of chemicals into the soil...who would want to eat vegetables grown that way? No offense to anyone that uses it, but I can't see feeding my 3 small kids vegetables that have been grown in chemicals if I can avoid it....

 

[jdkid]

Hi ya
two sides to the story about roundup and bringing ground in.i do notill seeding so i use round up (or round up clone)i have no prob useing it as long as withholding pedrods are followed but on the other hand i also used to plow and till the ground or some of both spray till .if real matted old feilds i'd spray then plow it helps the grass mat brake down .kinda tricky one myself i don't like useing chem's all the time some i will not use full stop ,but if i plowed all the time ya end up with a dust blow like the USA had many years ago .like most people i like to know what i'm eating (prodocts passed sprays fert etc etc )so growing ya own is one way of doing it ya can still spray for things weed's pests etc etc but you know when it was done, how much and when the withholding run out .our sheep when we sell them we have to sign a bit of paper stating all stock cared for (shade water etc etc)and outside of any withholding and thats getting tougher each day .now back to this new farm rocks will be ya biggest prob if only on top no prob pick up with FEL if all though the ground maybe big discs as they will not bring up many more don't need to be to fussie if only sowing cover crop for plowing in or grazeing the matted turf will rot down abit before ya next work it
catch ya
JD Kid

 

[DFB]

Here are some links, for Monsanto's Roundup and some views from the opposition. Interesting reading for sure. Genetically engineered seed in particular.

They (Monsanto) have been around for awhile too. Chronology

I haven't used Roundup or any other herbicide in my own garden. It's used down at the in-laws farm along with other chemical pesticides. They're certified with the state (Massachusetts) for commercially controlled pesticide application.

DFB

 

[Bill_Ryan]

Why?

I don't wish to start a large debate over use of chemicals vs. non-use....

If you are using or thinking of using chemicals on your fields or in your gardens, take some time first and do your homework.

Read what both sides have to say and then make an informed decision.

You can di this simply by performing a Yahoo searchg or some other search of the internet with appropriate keywords.

Bill

 

[cowboydoc]

Bill,
Are you talking about farming or are you talking about gardening? Two completely different applications. I wouldn't use roundup on my garden either. But how many people are going to go out with a hoe and take the weeds out of a thousand acres of soybeans? The man here asked about getting his place ready to farm. Like JD has said you turn that soil over repeatedly you're going to have problems. The only way to get hayground ready for the next year is to spray it. Unless you worked the ground for three or four years there's isn't an option. Now I agree on chemicals and such but here in the Midwest especially you have alot of problem with runoff. The topsoil is slowly being eroded to nothing. That's why the farmers went to no til. With no til you have no choice but to apply chemicals. I know what you're saying but with beans and corn at all time lows there is no way that a farmer could stay in business, they don't now, without chemicals. I'm not saying it's the best thing to do but it is how it's done.

 

[FarmerFrank]

What I have done on smaller areas is to cover them with black plastic for several weeks. This kills the existing plants. I have then rototilled and built deep, wide beds. This eliminates the need for repeated tilling. I have some tall trees to split and use for 12" tall borders.

The advice that I must kill the existing cover if I want to get it ready for next year was appreciated. I think my tarp method will work. The rock removal tips have been helpful. I will hire a big machine to come out and till the ground and remove the rocks.

I want to go all organic so Roundup, while very effective, is out. Folks desire to avoid the chemicals contained in commercial Ag products are one reason that I expect expanding from gardening for my family into organic vegetable farming will be profitable. The deep wide bed method used with proper crop rotation will keep weeds, pests and disease to manageable levels.

Last year I grew 32 different types of fruits and vegetables. This year I dropped the ones we did not like or that did not perform well. I have chickens and sheep and compost for nitrogen and I use rock phosphate and greensand for P & K.

My wost trouble is slugs. Those evil creatures straight from the pits of Hell! I use WorryFree Iron Phosphate and flour slug bait and am going to start using diamatacious earth in my ongoing battle. If this fails I will string 12 volt lines close together to shock the little *%@!%s.

Frank

 

[Bill_Ryan]

Cowboydoc,

I'm talking about both large scale and small scale farming/gardening.

Don't matter whether it's a 1/10 acre or 2000 acres, there are more friendly (and cost effective) ways of weed control other than using chemicals.

Bill

 

[Bill_Ryan]

P.S.: farmers around here turn under the hay pastures every 5-10 yrs (depending on weed growth) and reseed them.

No chemicals used.

Fertilizer is composted cow manure.

There are ways to do the same for other crops besides hay....

Bill

 

[cowboydoc]

I would be really interested in how that is done Bill. Large scale no till farming I haven't seen how it could be done. As far as hay fields same thing. I'm putting in 60 acres of hay next year on that ground that has been in CRP for 10 years. Everyone that I've talked to has told me the only way to keep the weeds and grass from coming up in my alfalfa is to roundup it and then plow, disc, and harrow. If there's a better way by all means let me know.

 

[Bird]

OK, Bill, if you're talking about chemicals in general. I thought you were just talking specifically about Round-Up or the company that makes it. I use a little Round-Up under my fences, and to stop grass growing up through a brick walkway and driveway (I've also tried one called Finale and couldn't tell any difference), but I've never used any herbicide, pesticide, or chemical fertilizer on the garden yet. Of course my primary method of weed control on the garden is another that is criticized here, and that is frequently tilling./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Bird

 

[cowboydoc]

Bird,
I think alot of things are getting mixed up here, gardening, farming, no til, etc. Growing up back west everything had to be irrigated. Therefore everything was planted in rows and beds. Most everything we raised was cultivated to help keep weeds down. In the midwest there is no irrigation and thus no rows and not much room to cultivate. Different practices. I'm very interested in what Bill has to say about say about large scale no til farming like is done here in the midwest. I know if there was a less costly way to do things these guys would be doing it. Shoot if it's viable I'm going to try it on that hay ground I'm going to plant next year. I do the same as you in our garden. Just til it with the push rototiller a couple times a month. The girls go through and pick the weeds out around the plants. I think what's talked about being excessive is the old plow, disc, and harrow method that created the original dust bowls here in the midwest. Completely different concept from gardening tilling.

 

[Bird]

Yeah, Richard, I think you're right. Of course it can get to be a complicated topic. I've read a little about the no-till farming and understand some of it's being done in this area. I don't know of any irrigated farming being done around here. Most of the farmers use gigantic disk plows (haven't seen a multi-bottom turning plow used in years), apply the anhydrous ammonia for fertilizer, plant, and hope it rains someday.

I'm not too hung up on "organic" since I figure the vast majority of what we eat was grown with chemicals, but I started this garden spot 5 years ago using no chemicals to see how it would do and have just stayed with it. It's generally produced more than we could use or give away, and I've even sold just a tiny bit. However, since I didn't use any chemicals and the grasshoppers destroyed my black-eyed peas by the time I'd gotten enough for about 3 meals, I've been picking a few from a neighbor's patch this week (he did use some pesticides). Besides what we've eaten, my wife has canned a dozen quarts and a half dozen pints this week.

I pulled all the tomato cages and mowed down the tomato plants and okra this morning; gardening is over for another year.

Bird

 

[cowboydoc]

Just goes to show you the different areas Bird. Farming is pretty much here how you describe there except there's alot of no til. With regards to the garden ours is just getting started here and you're already done!

 

[Bill_Ryan]

Farmers near here turn it under, leave it for a couple weeks and then disc harrow it until it's not too lumpy and then reseed.

I believe majority of weeds die from the turnover and disc harrowing and the new hay seed outgrows any weeds which survived (shades them out)?

They also hay twice a year here (before any weeds goto seed), but eventually enough weed seeds carry into the pastures from surrounding land that they need to reseed them again.

A farmer neighbor just did all their pastures (~100+ acres)...so far the new hay crop looks pretty darn clean.

Bill