New Kubota BX25-D Mod

[dragoneggs]

Copyrights and patents are not worth the paper they are written on!

China has been reverse engineering products for decades without repercussion.

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Indeed China does a lot of copying and gets away with it mostly because they don't respect international law and a foreigner won't get anywhere in Chinese court of 'law'. But I wouldn't go so far as to agree with you that "copyrights and patents aren't worth the paper they are written on"! and I would caution anyone in the US that attempts to knowingly copy a patented product in the US for example. Do your research. In fact, even in China, a Chinese company will get in trouble if they copy a patented product made by another Chinese manufacturer! They respect domestic companies, not foreign companies. This is a main reason that foreign companies enter into joint ventures or create a Chinese entity when doing significant business in/with China.

 

[dragoneggs]

I checked out the video for tire lift thing. He mentioned at the beginning some guy made a bucket dolly like he made and showed pictures of the guys dolly. I guess the dolly does not have a copyright.

Copyrights, Trademarks and Patents are all different animals as Roger already clarified with this link he already posted which sums it up nicely: Copyright in General (FAQ) | U.S. Copyright Office.

Generally, a patent requires some kind of new and unique process or design feature. There could be many different quick disconnects, tire lifts, etc. each with a unique invention that could be patented. Patents are not usually easy to obtain and there is a fair amount of work (usually by a patent attorney) to properly document the subject matter. If one wishes to understand patentability a little more... Patentability Overview: When can an Invention be Patented? - IPWatchdog.com | Patents & Patent Law

With respect to the specific issue here... I think we all just ought to relax and not blow this out of proportion. I think both the OP and 7lakes have made it clear on where they stand and there is no outstanding issue. I think 4shorts was probably a little sensitive due to some experience and came across a bit harsh... and I think 7lakes graciously apologized for any potential infringement and ceased to go forward out of respect whether there is any real infringement or not, which could be debatable.

I have a lot of respect for 4shorts and many others that graciously share their designs and projects.

This a great forum for sharing and helping each other and it is sad when folks get too worked up and quit participating because of misunderstandings or insults! I have seen this happen a few times in my relatively short time here and that is sad. My :2cents:

 

[WaxMan]

I checked out the video for tire lift thing. He mentioned at the beginning some guy made a bucket dolly like he made and showed pictures of the guys dolly. I guess the dolly does not have a copyright.

You notice he didn't show those pictures long, the dolly looked pretty good.
I'll bet nothing in this case has a copyright, 7lakes is different then shorts, just like shorts, is a little different then the guy he copied. Maybe the name "con" is copyrighted.
I feel bad, I didn't want to post his lift video I think his wife is a very sweet and nice person, so I intentionally left out the link. But it seemed to fit with all the copyright inventions talk.
I don't understand it, some times Paul can be a nice guy enjoyable to watch even, then bang he says something out of left field and just rubs me the wrong way. Or he says something I know is not true.
Boy has he rubbed me, more then a few times now. For no real reason other then to say he is better. So for me he is fair game when he mouths off. I wish him all the luck in his new ventures. And maybe think before he speaks sometimes and think about the consequences that follow. He has got to remember he is just like any one of us not above us. I don't care what he makes, sells, has done, will do, his way, right way, do as I say not as I do etc. etc. He is just like me and you no matter what he thinks.

 

[cschulz]

You notice he didn't show those pictures long, the dolly looked pretty good.
I'll bet nothing in this case has a copyright, 7lakes is different then shorts, just like shorts, is a little different then the guy he copied. Maybe the name "con" is copyrighted.
I feel bad, I didn't want to post his lift video I think his wife is a very sweet and nice person, so I intentionally left out the link. But it seemed to fit with all the copyright inventions talk.
I don't understand it, some times Paul can be a nice guy enjoyable to watch even, then bang he says something out of left field and just rubs me the wrong way. Or he says something I know is not true.
Boy has he rubbed me, more then a few times now. For no real reason other then to say he is better. So for me he is fair game when he mouths off. I wish him all the luck in his new ventures. And maybe think before he speaks sometimes and think about the consequences that follow. He has got to remember he is just like any one of us not above us. I don't care what he makes, sells, has done, will do, his way, right way, do as I say not as I do etc. etc. He is just like me and you no matter what he thinks.

BOOM Well put WaxMan

 

[WaxMan]

Just one more thing 7lakes for the record. When you quoted shorts below, you're taking what he said the wrong way.

When he said "Go for it my friend" that was not an Ok to do it. the Shorts I came to know, meant "If you think you can"
He did not believe anyone would have the ability to make it and as pretty as he made it. Its beautiful, painted nice the decals. Go for it. (if you think you can)

Well you went for it and you got it from him. He did the same to me many times only I never made anything he made. He just didn't like the fact I made it.
You showed him your advance cutting machine which he does not have. That is what set him off. Your able to make them without the effort he had to go thru.
He doesn't like people who show they can do what he does. Welcome to the club.

4Shorts:
Go for it my friend. That's why I post this stuff. Sharing ideas

Ps nice job on the added shaft collars with drift pins instead of cotter pins.

 

[7lakes]

Well you went for it and you got it from him. He did the same to me many times only I never made anything he made. He just didn't like the fact I made it.
You showed him your advance cutting machine which he does not have. That is what set him off. Your able to make them without the effort he had to go thru.
He doesn't like people who show they can do what he does. Welcome to the club.

Well I must interject that it wasn't without effort. I wish I would've had his to reverse engineer. I started from scratch and made 7 iterations of it prior to it being completed. I made 2 out of plywood on my CNC router. I then made 5 out of 1/8 steel on the CNC plasma until everything was just right. I feel bad we have put him off so much. He has taken down a bunch of photos of it. That was not my plan. He seemed cool with copying, but as you stated, he probably wasn't assuming anyone actually would. I am kinda from a generation that likes to share how to do things. I love Instructables.com and post there as well. Maybe that's my occupation in me, but I feel we all learn more from working together. I have to admit that I am torn from honoring his wishes and pulling down the files, but then again, he didn't make them. I did. I put 20 or so hours into making and testing them.

As for Paul, I feel bad for hurting his feelings. He was a reason I got the BX25D. I liked his mod's and the fun he seemed to have. I have similar, but different tooling and was looking forward to the challenge of keeping up with him. It was more of a mentor/apprentice thing in my mind. I was hoping he saw it more as flattery. Of all the things I can do in my shop, I chose to be like him. Oh well. On to the ripper tooth. HEHE.

 

[TripleR]

With respect to the specific issue here... I think we all just ought to relax and not blow this out of proportion. I think both the OP and 7lakes have made it clear on where they stand and there is no outstanding issue. I think 4shorts was probably a little sensitive due to some experience and came across a bit harsh... and I think 7lakes graciously apologized for any potential infringement and ceased to go forward out of respect whether there is any real infringement or not, which could be debatable.

I have a lot of respect for 4shorts and many others that graciously share their designs and projects.

This a great forum for sharing and helping each other and it is sad when folks get too worked up and quit participating because of misunderstandings or insults! I have seen this happen a few times in my relatively short time here and that is sad. My :2cents:

Agreed, there is a lot of back story to all of this and Paul has helped a lot of people on here as have others. I've used his and Waxman's ideas on my tractor with their permission, Paul even did the modification on mine and had offered to do it free of charge to others.

I "believe" Paul was not threatening action, just advising what might happen if the sale of his "patent/copyright " is sold. I know nothing about copyright or patent law. Sometimes a post comes across as being harsh when that is not the intent, I believe this may be the case here and certainly hope so.

My skill level is such I understand only about half of what you say, but sure admire and respect your skills/abilities.

 

[skyhook]

I "believe" Paul was not threatening action,

In my opinion, he was....whether that was a good thing or not is not for me to decide.

 

[TripleR]

In my opinion, he was....whether that was a good thing or not is not for me to decide.

"If you proceed it won't be my battle and could cost someone a heck of a lot of money in the process. It happened last year and it was MY battle then which I won. Taking others designs is not only bad taste but very poor judgment financially on anyone's part especially from an educator like yourself. Sharing the files can make you liable for MY design and copyright. You be the judge. Ask yourself, Is it worth it? That's all I have to say on the topic. The next person who you talk to on this copyright topic won't be me and the company involved is watching this very closely.

I may be wrong, but I took this to mean it would be whomever he sold his design to, if you're right then that is a whole different thing.

 

[ericher69]

Indeed China does a lot of copying and gets away with it mostly because they don't respect international law and a foreigner won't get anywhere in Chinese court of 'law'. But I wouldn't go so far as to agree with you that "copyrights and patents aren't worth the paper they are written on"! and I would caution anyone in the US that attempts to knowingly copy a patented product in the US for example. Do your research. In fact, even in China, a Chinese company will get in trouble if they copy a patented product made by another Chinese manufacturer! They respect domestic companies, not foreign companies. This is a main reason that foreign companies enter into joint ventures or create a Chinese entity when doing significant business in/with China.

Say it again; patents not worth paper they are written on!

Unless...you have deep pockets

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