Tractor News New Kubota M7 Series
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MHarryE
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Have seen preliminary literature. Virtually identical to current Grand X except for the addition of DEF and the associated 5 gallon tank. PTO power for each model is is lower than today's equivalent although advertised engine power is higher but it may all be in the standard listed on the specification i.e. net power or gross power. M6-141 has 141.4 gross, 133.0 net, and 114 PTO vs. 118 PTO of the current M135GX.
rScotty
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Re: New "M7" Series
Much as I like the M series, the subject of designing to meet the final Tier 4 requirements is wider yet. It has relevance to all new models - and it doesn't have to be technical to still provide interesting dinner conversation.
I'm a retired mechanical engineer and spent my career designing incremental changes into products. Not surprisingly I'm fascinated by the different ways that companies choose to solve what is essentially the same technical challenge. One will do it in one way while another will follow a different path to the same goal.
The choice of changes to be incorporated into any new model is not the a designer's decision, but chosing how to make those changes certainly is. There are a vast number of roughly equivalent ways to design for the same result. Selecting between those is usually the design engineer's responsibility.
What makes this variance so interesting is that the final decision is less scientific than one might suppose. Design philosoply has a surprisingly regional - even a nationalistic signature. Most experienced engineers or mechanics can take a look at any complex part and make a pretty shrewd guess as to where that part's designer was educated and/or employed.
As a specific example, consider how an engine is governed for load - or for emissions. Every industrial engine has to have both systems addressed, but just how these challenges are met provides a signature as certain as a label reading: Designed in the USA, or Japan, or in Britain, France, Germany or Russia.
That's certainly fascinating to this old engineer, and so is the question it creates:
Is regional design bias the best basis for mechanical design? Maybe so; maybe no.... Do other ways exist?
Enjoy!
rScotty
Much as I like the M series, the subject of designing to meet the final Tier 4 requirements is wider yet. It has relevance to all new models - and it doesn't have to be technical to still provide interesting dinner conversation.
I'm a retired mechanical engineer and spent my career designing incremental changes into products. Not surprisingly I'm fascinated by the different ways that companies choose to solve what is essentially the same technical challenge. One will do it in one way while another will follow a different path to the same goal.
The choice of changes to be incorporated into any new model is not the a designer's decision, but chosing how to make those changes certainly is. There are a vast number of roughly equivalent ways to design for the same result. Selecting between those is usually the design engineer's responsibility.
What makes this variance so interesting is that the final decision is less scientific than one might suppose. Design philosoply has a surprisingly regional - even a nationalistic signature. Most experienced engineers or mechanics can take a look at any complex part and make a pretty shrewd guess as to where that part's designer was educated and/or employed.
As a specific example, consider how an engine is governed for load - or for emissions. Every industrial engine has to have both systems addressed, but just how these challenges are met provides a signature as certain as a label reading: Designed in the USA, or Japan, or in Britain, France, Germany or Russia.
That's certainly fascinating to this old engineer, and so is the question it creates:
Is regional design bias the best basis for mechanical design? Maybe so; maybe no.... Do other ways exist?
Enjoy!
rScotty
rScotty
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Hello sixdogs,
Well, OK....since you asked....
Tier 4 Final? As of yet I don't think the the various approaches have sorted themselves out well enough yet to have any particular regional design fingerprint - much less a national one. Or if they have, it's not obvious to me. Maybe it never will be; after all, I am more or less retired now.
Or maybe it is just that these these designs themselves just are't mature enough for something so subtle to be identifiable. I tend to lean towards that view. But I do think that these regional design orientations will eventually emerge. And that they will be obvious as they do. So give it another decade. And as this all happens, it wouldn't surprise me to see future FT4 solutions looking very different from today's. Much like what happened when cars came out with their first round of EGRs & catalytic converters.
I'd say that we are still at a very basic level. Industry is only taking their first step out of the R&D lab, and decisions are still being driven by regulatory dates rather than technological breakthroughs. At that level only the roughest generalizations make any sense at all.
But you asked, and so just for the pure fun of the thing I will go way out on a limb and make some really general predictions based on what we've seen in the past. Sure hope I don't offend - that's not the purpose at all.
1. I predict that Northern Europe will tout their collaborative "superior intellectual understanding of internal engine technology and argue that entitles them to say that based on their scientific knowledge (and the resulting re-definitions of terms) that they can meet the requirements not by adding devices but by having superior knowledge about engines, fuels, and emissions. They may well haggle for years.
2. That the USA style manufacturers will come out with a bewildering number of different gadgetry ways to meet the regulations while simultaneously adding power and economy throughout the size and RPM range. In the beginning the solutions will range from the nearly idiotic in terms of expense and downtime all the way up to the simply brilliant. And probably about equally distributed. Then as each approach evolves through a few more steps - which will happen very rapidly - each manufacturer will argue vigorously that theirs is the best way. Even if it obviously is not.
3. And the Japanese will take a more conservative approach by swapping a little bit of today's engine performance plus some expense and maintenance requirements in order to implement moderately complex, precise, andoddly over-engineered devices that will exactly meet the emission standards in every detail. And then they will be very reluctant to change them.
Enjoy! rScotty
Oh, and as a postscript I should add that personally I'm in favor of emission requirements....and am hoping that Tier 4 and the successive Tiers create something that the next generations will thank us for doing. Or at least tried to do.
MHarryE
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For the Europeans Stage 5 is already on the horizon. In light of the World Health Organization information concerning diesel particle emissions and cancer in humans, the techniques based solely on particle mass no longer seem appropriate. The next standard will cover both mass and number. The methods of reducing the particle number are already applied by many manufacturers in the 130 to 560 kW range so they will be addressing the smaller and larger engines. They are not expected to finalize numbers until 2016 but the proposed implementation date is 2019 for 19 kW and smaller (25.4 HP). The engine manufacturers have ongoing discussions with the EPA. They don't want to build different engines for every market - they would like a level playing field. So it would not be surprising to see DPFs on all engines starting in 2019.
MessickFarmEqu
Super Member
IMO.. I'd like to wholeheartedly agree, but I'm afraid we're caught in a political movement rather than really trying to fix the problem. We're adding 10's of thousands of dollars to equipment to take emissions to levels cleaner than the ambient air, while leaving much larger sources of green house gases untouched. Literally, farting cows have a bigger impact on the environment than diesel emissions at this point but you don't see anyone trying to do anything about it. Rather than being a scientific effort its easier for the movement to point fingers at an exhaust pipe or a factory than it is a cow.
randomid25
New member
Environmental science is a joke. It hasn't been a science for decades. Nothing but a political power grab that allows politicians to get their hands in every honey pot their is.
Kubota Belgium
New member
Why in France? In the European picture there are a lot of tractors sold in France, France is more or less the center of Europe, the factory is a few miles of a large harbour, Kubota Europe is in Paris (capital of France), ... a lot of reasons.
In Europe, the climate is changing, we have more rainy days. So less weight is an advantage most of the time. If we need more weight, than we have always heavy weights for the front 3-point (maybe half of our tractors have a front 3-point).
We had the chance to make a little trip with this beautiful tractors, and everyone was very positive : very smooth transmission, all fonctions you can imagine and still easy to use, silent cab, a lot of space, the feeling of driving a 6 cil. (allthough it's a 4 cil.), an intuitive 12 inch screen (ALL the possibilities on just one screen : tractormanagement, GPS, camera, machines, ...), ... We have to be honest : the Japanese engineers have done there homework very well! They have been looking what is already on the market, and they know also very well the needs of the (European) farmers.
It's a completely new tractor, but :
=> the motor is already well-known
=> software by Kverneland (very good reputation)
=> 3 or 5 years complete warranty by Kubota (competitors don't take that 'risk' with there products)
=> all the parts made by Kubota (except the transmission)
=> ZF-transmission : also very good reputation
There are a few tractors M7 now already in use, to test them thouroughly. They are doing very well. Just like their little brothers
Here you'll find all the news we get : https://www.facebook.com/pages/Kubota-Belgium/917215978291949 (don't hesitate to share this site, so we reach more people!)
In Europe, the climate is changing, we have more rainy days. So less weight is an advantage most of the time. If we need more weight, than we have always heavy weights for the front 3-point (maybe half of our tractors have a front 3-point).
We had the chance to make a little trip with this beautiful tractors, and everyone was very positive : very smooth transmission, all fonctions you can imagine and still easy to use, silent cab, a lot of space, the feeling of driving a 6 cil. (allthough it's a 4 cil.), an intuitive 12 inch screen (ALL the possibilities on just one screen : tractormanagement, GPS, camera, machines, ...), ... We have to be honest : the Japanese engineers have done there homework very well! They have been looking what is already on the market, and they know also very well the needs of the (European) farmers.
It's a completely new tractor, but :
=> the motor is already well-known
=> software by Kverneland (very good reputation)
=> 3 or 5 years complete warranty by Kubota (competitors don't take that 'risk' with there products)
=> all the parts made by Kubota (except the transmission)
=> ZF-transmission : also very good reputation
There are a few tractors M7 now already in use, to test them thouroughly. They are doing very well. Just like their little brothers
Here you'll find all the news we get : https://www.facebook.com/pages/Kubota-Belgium/917215978291949 (don't hesitate to share this site, so we reach more people!)
