New rules for ethanol in gasoline

[5030]

This applies not only to small engines but gas tractors and motorcycles as well..

The EPA changed their requirement for corn alcohol in gasoline in certain states, effective in 2023. The states of Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota, Ohio, Nebraska. South Dakota and Wisconsin.

Keep in mind that anything over 10% by volume of corn alcohol added to gasoline spells death for small engines. They aren't designed and don't have the fuel systems capable of handling anymore than 10%

The petroleum producers also warned the EPA that the additional corn alcohol would increase the cost per gallon in those states as well, of course the EPA didn't listen.

You cannot pipeline e-gas as it's corrosive to pipelines. It has to be blended in at the refinery and road trucked to filling stations.

I think we all know what 10% e-gas does (without the addition of a stabilizer) now. 15% will be worse.

I already switched my chainsaws and weed trimmers over to syn fuel. It's expensive but I'm tired of dealing with gunked carbs and failed fuel lines on seasonal and occasional use gas powered equipment.

 

[mrmikey]

One word...wow. So it'll corrode pipelines, increase the cost per gallon and ruin anything that it sits in. The reason for using this garbage is what again...remind me?
I just tested a can of gas I got at my non regular station and it was 10%. I dumped it in my truck and went to my regular station which I tested as well and it was still good for now. I don't know what I'll do when I can't get gas.
For the true fuel around here it's CAN $28 for 3-1/4L

 

[big bubba]

what a mess. so not sure what you are implying...that in those states listed, the ethanol % will go up? is ethanol free fuel avail in those states? if so, then why get the $28/gal over non ethanol? absolutely agree the corrosive/ detrimental effects of ethanol on small engines no brainer, been using non for years. just wondering the impact of regulations in the states you listed. regards

 

[Username Taken]

This applies not only to small engines but gas tractors and motorcycles as well..

The EPA changed their requirement for corn alcohol in gasoline in certain states, effective in 2023. The states of Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota, Ohio, Nebraska. South Dakota and Wisconsin.

A link would have been nice.

And I dislike the EPA as much as, or more than, anybody in here. But let's make sure our protests are accurate. Not saying mine are. I don't mind being corrected. Feel free if you are so inclined

Keep in mind that anything over 10% by volume of corn alcohol added to gasoline spells death for small engines. They aren't designed and don't have the fuel systems capable of handling anymore than 10%

How small? 4 stroke or 2 stroke? I can buy Ethanol-Free fuel at a couple of stations down here. So that's a big "So What?" to me.

The petroleum producers also warned the EPA that the additional corn alcohol would increase the cost per gallon in those states as well, of course the EPA didn't listen.

Not so sure of that. When I'm in Michigan, E-85 is all over the place. Cheaper than regular gas by quite a lot. Tells me that Ethanol is cheaper than gasoline.

I ran some in my F-150 with the Flex Fuel Coyote 5.0L which is safe for ethanol. Ran like a striped-assed ape. Ran cooler, too. But it used more, got less MPG. ETA: Be sure to check if you decide to put in something that's turbocharged. Make sure your engine can handle it

You cannot pipeline e-gas as it's corrosive to pipelines. It has to be blended in at the refinery and road trucked to filling stations.

I think they've been doing tht for quite a while with additives.

I think we all know what 10% e-gas does (without the addition of a stabilizer) now. 15% will be worse.

No, I don't know. Back in the day, we had to replace some plastic intake manifolds. Mostly, if not all, on GM Vehicles. Especially Cadillacs. If the OEM has ventured into the 21st Century, their engines should be fine.

I already switched my chainsaws and weed trimmers over to syn fuel. It's expensive but I'm tired of dealing with gunked carbs and failed fuel lines on seasonal and occasional use gas powered equipment.

I can't see where alcohol would 'gunk' a carb. Eat up a fuel line? Sho 'nuff. On the older ones. New ones? Not so sure.

Ethanol is nothing more than an Octane Booster. Raw gas, RBOB blendstock, doesn't burn well in a modern internal combustion engine. Well, it might run but you wouldn't like it very much. Especially once the engine got hot-ish.

Raw gasoline doesn't have the octane. Burns great, combusts just fine. Everywhere. Often, before it gets to the combustion chamber. And when it combusts inside your manifold, bad things happen.

That's why they add alcohol, Ethanol, or something.

 

[2manyrocks]

The claimed (please don't shoot the messenger here) reasons for ethanol was energy independence from being entirely reliant on oil and ethanol being a renewal resource.

 

[TractorTYMe]

The cornlobby is too strong.

 

[bcp]

EPA proposes allowing year-round sale of cheaper, higher-ethanol gas blends in Wisconsin and seven other states

A fuel blend with larger amounts of ethanol, known as E15 or Unleaded 88 could become avialable year-round under a proposed EPA rule.

www.jsonline.com

For the conspiracy people: It's all a plot to kill small gas engines to be replaced with battery powered ones.

Bruce

 

[2manyrocks]

Why regulate small engines when you can just kill them with ethanol gas?

 

[big bubba]

so to me it's all about avail of ethanol free fuel in a given state. here, 92 non ethanol is standard, what i go with. in locales where ethanol free is prohibited or not avail, then why? this is where the corn lobby may come into to play
i see no sense in purchasing $28/gal where non ethanol is available. regards

 

[mrmikey]

i see no sense in purchasing $28/gal where non ethanol is available. regards

Makes no sense at all.
I posted it because if I can't get gas anymore that's what it'll cost me. Roughly CAN$7 a liter for true fuel where as now buying gas and two stroke oil it's roughly CAN$2 a liter

 

[big bubba]

understand. curious your location? regards

 

[5030]

Read it in the local rag this morning (AP article) so I had no link as it wasn't on the net to begin with and I didn't look.

If you leave e-gas in a carb without additive for an extended period, it will separate (called phase shift) and the water will most certainly corrode the inside of the carb and clog the jets. Been there and done that more than once. I imagine that an EFI engine is less impacted but something with a carb is.

Why all my small stuff (chainsaws and weed eaters) are now on synthetic fuel). All carbed and all susceptible tp getting gunked up and the chainsaws with their diaphragm carbs especially.

I always use Marine Stabil in the mowers as they sit all winter with full fuel tanks but phase shift is still an issue.

Most small engines don't like e-gas. They will tolerate 10% but 15% could spell death for them. In fact, most newer small engines state that right on the fuel tank or on the gas cap for a reason.

Both of our vehicles are flex fuel which means the fuel delivery components are tolerant of alcohol though I've never used it and it is widely available here.

I get 40 on regular anyway, good enough for me as I don't drive all that much anyway.

Even states in our owners manuals that using E85 will decrease the fuel mileage. I imagine that Fords (my car) and GM (my wife's Suburban) know what they are talking about.

I know on my car it states in the owners manual to run a tank of regular unleaded every 4th tankfull. Why I don't know.

 

[5030]

One thing I didn't mention and most non farmers don't realize is, American farmers combine corn (strip the cobs of kernels and leave the stalks and stripped cobs in the field) and the majority of the alcohol producing sugar is actually in the stalk itself. European corn growers that grow e-corn chop the entire plant, cob, kernels and stalks and all of it goes to the distiller.

The other issue is, distillers are particular about varieties of corn grown. IOW, corn grown for food production and e-corn are 2 different animals and distillers like to control pricing as in cheap.

What happened here. The distiller went out of business when local farmers were told they had to grow specific varieties and sell to them at a low ball price. Once that went down and local farmers realized food grade corn paid much better at the elevator, the local distiller folded.

Finally, it's a well proven and documented fact that it takes more energy to produce a gallon of corn alcohol than that gallon produces in realized energy, which is why all distillers need gummit subsidies to stay in business.

You pay twice. Once in taxes and then again at the pump.

 

[Username Taken]

IIRC, every bushel of corn processed for ethanol produces about 3 gallons of ethanol and about 20 lbs of animal feed. And, from what I understand, the feed produced is much richer than the corn before the processing, so it displaces about 120%.

IOW, 100lbs of ethanol-processed feed takes the place of 120lbs of corn. Not sure about all that.

I'm not crazy about using it for ethanol but I don't think it's as bad as some think. Technology is good in the right hands.

In the wrong hands -- Well, those people screw up everything they touch anyway, so.................

 

[drssg]

EPA proposes allowing year-round sale of cheaper, higher-ethanol gas blends in Wisconsin and seven other states

A fuel blend with larger amounts of ethanol, known as E15 or Unleaded 88 could become avialable year-round under a proposed EPA rule.

www.jsonline.com

For the conspiracy people: It's all a plot to kill small gas engines to be replaced with battery powered ones.

Bruce

To my reading, this is not forcing anyone to buy E85 gas. It would be allowing its sale in the summer months, as well as winter.

When I have seen E85 offered for sale in Ohio, it is labeled as a cheaper alternative. The same station offers "normal" gas for a higher price, and it can have up to 10% ethanol.

 

[2manyrocks]

I live in a small, rural county in Middle Tennessee. Since the price of ethanol gas per gallon is cheaper, that's what sells at every place in town except one store that still offers 100% gas. If that one store stops selling 100% gas, the next place that sells it is in the next county about 20 miles away who sells it because they are on the same road that leads to a major fishing lake.

 

[big bubba]

so going back to OP, does availability of ethanol free fuel depend on demographic demand in each locale, or is it a matter of state/local regulation, or lobbyists?

 

[Rockbadchild]

I already switched my chainsaws and weed trimmers over to syn fuel. It's expensive but I'm tired of dealing with gunked carbs and failed fuel lines on seasonal and occasional use gas powered equipment.

Syn Fuel ?? what is syn fuel ?

 

[MossRoad]

OK Folks. 15% ethanol is NOT E85!

They are two different product.

E15 is 15% ethanol and 85% gasoline.

E85 is 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline.

Also, the OP's statement is misleading.

No one is forcing people in those states to use E15. It allows them to sell E15 all year VS just seasonally.

EPA proposes allowing year-round sale of cheaper, higher-ethanol gas blends in Wisconsin and seven other states

A fuel blend with larger amounts of ethanol, known as E15 or Unleaded 88 could become avialable year-round under a proposed EPA rule.

www.jsonline.com

 

[MossRoad]

....

You cannot pipeline e-gas as it's corrosive to pipelines. It has to be blended in at the refinery and road trucked to filling stations.

...

The majority of gasoline sold in the US is E10. It has never been made at refineries, and has always been blended at the rack, as they say. It's been that way since the 80s. So this is nothing new.

Refinery Mixology: What's in Your Gasoline? - OPIS, A Dow Jones Company

Finished gasoline isn't a common output from U.S. refiners. Instead, they produce gasoline blendstocks to which ethanol is added at the rack. Learn more.

blog.opisnet.com