New to me 240D

[California]

Thanks @California. Question, do you recall how hard you had to turn when removing the broken stud? I'm putting a fair amount of force on the extractor and it's not budging the bolt

I do have a maintenance question. I ended up draining the Trans/Hydr fluid and I was pleasantly surprised that it and the filter/screen were in excellent shape. However, I did notice a bit of small metal shavings in the old fluid and on the screen.

I don't have any good advice on either issue, the extractor or the metal flakes. Maybe someone else will respond.

As I recall I was using about the same amount of force as you would apply tapping new threads and are getting in deep, when that little stud finally loosened. I suspect it had threadlocker from the factory. Use a tap-handle on the extractor so all the force applied is rotational. Turning the tap with a wrench loads sideways force, increasing the risk of breaking it.

I like dirttoys' advice to keep drilling with your left-hand bits until you are risking the threads. That should allow a larger and more durable extractor.

With water pipe I've then crushed the weakened remnant with a narrow chisel but I don't know if that's applicable here. That approach might shake it loose if its weakened. There's also heat/cold as a tool to break it free. Heat the metal around it then jam ice into your hole in the bolt. And heating might break a threadlocker bond. But I'm an amateur, maybe a real machinist has better ideas.

The metal in the UTF may just be from clumsy shifts, grinding the gears. Nothing you can do about it.

Does this hole go directly into the engine block, so you couldn't put a nut behind a new bolt?

 

[supermansv]

I don't have any good advice on either issue, the extractor or the metal flakes. Maybe someone else will respond.

As I recall I was using about the same amount of force as you would apply tapping new threads and are getting in deep, when that little stud finally loosened. I suspect it had threadlocker from the factory. Use a tap-handle on the extractor so all the force applied is rotational. Turning the tap with a wrench loads sideways force, increasing the risk of breaking it.

I like dirttoys' advice to keep drilling with your left-hand bits until you are risking the threads. That should allow a larger and more durable extractor.

With water pipe I've then crushed the weakened remnant with a narrow chisel but I don't know if that's applicable here. That approach might shake it loose if its weakened. There's also heat/cold as a tool to break it free. Heat the metal around it then jam ice into your hole in the bolt. And heating might break a threadlocker bond. But I'm an amateur, maybe a real machinist has better ideas.

The metal in the UTF may just be from clumsy shifts, grinding the gears. Nothing you can do about it.

Does this hole go directly into the engine block, so you couldn't put a nut behind a new bolt?

Thank you for the reply.

The hole does go directly into the block, so unfortunately no way to put a nut behind it.

Going to try a bit more with the smaller bit this morning after the PB sat overnight. If that doesn't work, I'll move to the next size up and give it a try.

Appreciate the help gents.

-Zach

 

[ljjhouser]

Welcome to TBN. This is a great place to get help! Nice looking tractor. Best Wishes, Larry

 

[bmaverick]

Thank you for the reply.

The hole does go directly into the block, so unfortunately no way to put a nut behind it.

Going to try a bit more with the smaller bit this morning after the PB sat overnight. If that doesn't work, I'll move to the next size up and give it a try.

Appreciate the help gents.

-Zach

Should the bolt have a thread-locker, PB will not dissolve that material because it's basically pet-safe propylene glycol as the main ingredient to loosen things.

Something that stubborn and with thread-locker needs Deep-Creep. It will dissolve the thread-locker and get into tightest press-fit gaps.

I would really recommend this very thorough testing of the leading penetrants to review.

 

[ponytug]

Thanks, it was kind of an accident drilling through as I didn't know how much bolt was in there. I guess it's a good thing though because now I can spray PB behind the bolt and hopefully loosen it up.

Certainly not a dumb question on how centering . I think I got it pretty centered, but it is off just slightly. From the HF kit, I do have the next size up, but that will drill out most of the bolt. My concern there was I wouldn't have much left for the extractor to grab onto..

I pulled one of the other bolts on the FEL frame, it was stripped to all heck and back. I'm guessing the others will be the same. Looks like I need to get all new bolts and a tap to chase the threads on all of these.. The fun continues .

Thanks for the tips Ed!

Having done this a few times, I have never managed to get the drill centered on the bolt hole. Nevertheless, when you get close to the threads, I have found that the remnants of the bolt threads eventually just cave into the drill and you can get them out.

One upside to having the bolt shear off too deep for welding a nut on is that you have some starter threads. If you start with a bottoming tap (with tapping fluid!), it will follow the existing threads and get you the 6-8 threads you need for a standard tap to do a good job. Once a standard tap has gone to the right depth (I measure the depth beforehand so I don't break the tap in the blind hole), you can use a bottoming tap to get the last 1-2 threads tapped.

Worst case: if you drill out the threads is that you can come back with a helicoil thread insert.

In the stupid things that I have done category:
For me, I find getting a sheared bolt out and the hole returned to service a lesson to me in the importance of patience and not rushing things. When I have pushed it, I have ended up with broken drills or taps embedded in the hole and things get really ugly. I self taught myself a bunch of metalworking, and getting schooled by experts came rather late in my career (still learning lots!), so in the past, I have done things that in hindsight were just plain stupid.

(Thanks @bmaverick for the Deep Creep tip! I never knew it existed. And +1 on PB blaster.)

All the best,

Peter

 

[SaintJames]

The other trick for snapped of bolts, is to cut a slit with a small dremmel tool, if you are lucky, a big screw driver can catch the new slit and back out that piece left behind. We often heat them first, as well

 

[greenerdreams]

whenever i cant get a bolt out one of my first options is welding something to the stud. sometimes depending on space available i will weld a nut or something with a void and then weld a bolt into that void. sometimes the heating and cooling will break the bond and it comes out easy. learned this after trying to get very badly stuck bearing races out, if you weld around the inside of a race it will almost fall out after cooling.

 

[pacosperson]

You probably know it's important to get that drilled hole as close as possible to center. It looks like someone has used some incorrect 'bolt bin' cad plated cap screws. These at least should be easy to drill IF that is what broke off. Try to get all the way through and then squirt in some penetrating oil and stop until the next day. If those steel bolts are in cast iron as it appears, you should be fine. Re-tap the holes and use the longest bolt possible for re-assembly.

 

[CoyPatton]

An old timers trick I was taught lots of years ago by an uncle, he said an old timer taught him is candle wax.
Heat the bolt/threaded hole (it just needs to get warm enough at the rear of the bolt to wick the wax there, not glowing red hot). Then press the candle to the bolt allowing it to wick into the threads. The slickness of the wax works against thread locker, rust, torque. The wax/bolt needs to cool before removal for best results although I have done it while still warm, but cooled enough I can work the extractor.

 

[ponytug]

I'm sure that the candle wax trick works, because I have heard it more than a few times. All I can say is I must not have the right candles or I don't know how to light them. I have even tried putting a torch on it and then melting the wax. No luck. Beef tallow candles? Spermaceti?

PB blaster for me, though I have Kroil, Penetrol and a few others around, "just in case".

All the best,

Peter