new to this forum kioti ck30 will not start

[ritcheyvs]

My DK40 has a main fuse located between the battery and the ignition switch. Mine was covered in black electricians tape wrapped around the cable and it looked like a mickey mouse repair but is a fuse-able link put there from the factory. When nothing lit up including the glow plug, I unwrapped it and found it blown. I think it is 60a.
After replacement it worked fine.

I re-wrapped it with red elec tape so it stands out.

Good Luck.

BW

Good info, but he reported (in post 4) that the emergency flashers do work; and that rules out the 60 amp fuse. He could still have a battery or cable problem because the flashers require so little current (compared to the glow plugs or starter), but he denies those possible causes. Something made the previously-running engine fail to restart start shortly after a normal shut down last year. I doubt that no-start was caused by fuel depletion. How could he know there was no fuel? Many owners report plenty of remaining fuel well after the gauge reads empty (my tank is still half full when the gauge reads E). Then something else killed some of the electrics (including the instruments but not the flasher) this spring. Probably two separate problems, which further confuses the situation. Until the OP reports back with new information we are probably spinning our wheels trying to help him.

 

[bullshipper99]

I did not read all the posts, sorry.

My DK40 has been having starting issues for years. I hurt my back 5 years ago and the tractor has been great, but sometimes it would not crank. everything else works, but no crank. All relays etc click and unclick and glow plugs work, but no joy. sometimes it will make a strain noise once or twice, then start. I remember jumping the solenoid to start it before. Problem will go away and then come back months later. in between starts normal.

Today it won't crank, battery good, but jumping the leads at the starter won't work, the starter does not crank the engine, it just spins without engaging the flywheel.

 

[VictorW]

If the starter is spinning but the starter gear isn't engaging the flywheel then maybe two things. The bendix, this pushes the gear out to engage the flywheel and then retracts the gear when power to the starter is off, is gone or the end of the starter shaft, that this gear slides back and forth on, is rusted or corroded. Remove the starter, check the shaft, clean if needed and apply some grease and you can also test if the bendix is working by putting the starter on the ground, holding it down with your foot because it will roll when power is applied, and hit it with 12 volts and see if the gear moves out on the shaft. I haven't had my starter out to see it's exact construction. I'm used to those on road vehicles but their operation is the same.

 

[bullshipper99]

Will do.

Thanks!

Gonna troubleshoot the cables, switch, etc.. and all those other points of failure as well to address the intermittent cranking....as soon as I find some jumper cables.

BW

 

[ritcheyvs]

If the starter is spinning but not engaging the flywheel, there is an internal problem within the starter (as Vic mentioned) OR the starter is misaligned such that the gear teeth don't mesh (unlikely) OR the gear teeth are gone. Sometimes a couple missing teeth on the flywheel will create a "dead spot."

 

[bullshipper99]

Thanks!
I have never ground the starter or abused the machine. So no dead spot(s) or missing teeth. Only the failure to crank for at least 4 years off and on and once no power at all 2 years ago when the main fuse blew.
I would check cables, ground, loosen and tighten, and then it would crank. Sometimes I just kept trying and it would crank.
Yesterday it was acting up again and I held the key and turned the electric PTO on and off and you could hear the noise change frequency. Then I kept trying the key and it cranked just like normal. More like corrosion on the battery terminals than a dead battery, when it finally cranked it cranked good and normal. I think whatever was intermittent before has failed completely. I bet it is cables or ground or ignition switch. I know the terminals are clean and tight and the battery checked OK. I am trying to start by shorting the terminals on the starter solenoid with a screwdriver and getting the starter to spin but no engaging flywheel.

BTW- The intermittent issue for years is weird in that sometimes it will whine like an old ford or chevy with a bad solenoid or a car with corrosion on the battery terminals that you could clean and fix the issue. Other times the only sound you hear are the fuel solenoid and the glow plugs clicking on, and then no sound or anything at all when you make the final turn to start. Sometimes it whines and sometimes nothing.

And most of the time it works fine. It has done this no cranking in cold and hot weather, and it has done it first start of the day, and on a hot re-start.

So the only thing I can see that is consistent about the problem is the dang old in-consistency!!!!

Thanks again!

BW

 

[bullshipper99]

Tractor is used year round to bush hogg, drill post holes, till garden, raking gravel on driveways, moving and feeding round bales to cattle and moving snow with box blade and FEL.

I had a clutch replaced twice under warranty. The tractor was kept outside. While moving hay saw stains on the road and discovered fluid was leaking out transmission. A seal failed and the clutch had been bathed in oil and was replaced. First time dealer took forever and the clutch went out again 6 months later, stuck to the flywheel. No fluid leaking this time.
I took it to a different dealer who said when he took the tractor apart the clutch was so rusty they could not figure out why. Initial claim denied under warranty. I explained the first repair situation and they paid for entire fix and requested I store inside or under cover. They also removed the clutch water drain plug and put a bent cotter pin in to allow water to drain and keep insects out.

I wonder if the starter/flywheel has been rusty and getting worse over time?

Did not mean to leave that out, I just remembered it happened.

It is a 2003 and that seal - clutch went out the second year I had it.

 

[ritcheyvs]

The starter pinion lives in the same environment as the flywheel and clutch. So it could easily have become rusted too. If so, Vic's suggestion may do the trick.

 

[bullshipper99]

OK, Good News and Good News??

In the above posts I was shorting the main wires of the starter instead of the red lead spade terminal and the positive side in of the starter.

The tractor runs and starts fine when I use the switch for glow plugs and jump across the red lead and the starter + in.

The switch puts out 12.7 from the center wire when the switch is in the start position.

So do I locate and troubleshoot whatever the switch(s) are that prevent the start without depressing the clutch and or PTO switch or whatever else F*^$s up the start sequence and keeps the Lawyers happy and employed........?


OR


Do I install a push button between the red lead and the + in on the starter and use the key and then press the button when the glow plug light goes on like a normal start and just never use the Start position on the key switch??

Any help, reference links to drawings or other input appreciated.

Thanks!

BW

 

[ritcheyvs]

Bullshipper: That makes sense. The small starter terminal energizes the starter solenoid which (1) connects the 12v (from the big starter terminal) to the motor windings (via the other big terminsl) and (2) operates a lever that pushes the pinion gear to engage the flywheel. But, if you only apply power to that other big (winding) terminal the motor will spin but the pinion gear will not engage because this setup also energizes a second solenoid winding that pulls the pinion AWAY from the flywheel. If both solenoid windings are energized (e.g. normal start), the pinion engages the flywheel until power is removed from the small terminal (e.g. when key is released from the crank position). Then, that second winding (and a spring) pulls the pinion away to disengage from the flywheel. So it sounds like the starter is operating normally.

There is a start relay (on that "firewall" in front of the fuel tank) that switches power to the starter motor. Others here report that these are common plug-in relays available at any auto parts store. Your "no crank" problem is either that relay or the actual key switch. Your voltage measurement seems to indicate a good key switch although I'm not certain which wire you mean by "center wire".

My recommendation would be to try replacing that start relay. I don't have a CK, but I have a diagram that shows the start relay is in the outboard, extreme right (as viewed from the driver's seat) position. There may be another identical type relay on that firewall (for some other purpose) that you could temporarily swap to see if that fixes your no-crank. I'm not certain that your specific model has an identical relay.

The other thing to check is the clutch safety switch which prevents starting the engine unless the clutch is fully depressed/disengaged. I assume you have a 2003 gear model?