new to this forum kioti ck30 will not start

   / new to this forum kioti ck30 will not start #31  
Thanks!

Shuttle-shift gear model

I purchased 10/2003

Serial # 3615-00015

Thanks for the help.

I can find that relay with your excellent directions, but I do not know where the clutch safety switch is located.
Machine was parked in bad location to crawl under but now I can crank it and move it to a better location.

BW
 
   / new to this forum kioti ck30 will not start #32  
Follow the arm from the clutch pedal up to the pivot. You should see that limit switch touching the clutch arm. Think in terms of looking up under the dash vs under the tractor. You probably want a flashlight.

It's a simple limit switch that breaks the electrical connection from the key switch to the start relay until the clutch pedal is almost fully depressed. These switches can fail but they can also get out of adjustment. I think you can pull the connector from the switch and use a simple jumper at the connector to bypass the switch as a test.

Also, vased on the first digit of your S/N, you indeed have a 2003 model. The purchase date can be well after the build date, which matters little because tractors don't change every year like US cars. The full S/N is important for ordering parts because design changes can happen at any time (often in the middle of a build year).
 
   / new to this forum kioti ck30 will not start #33  
On my way.

Found relay, clicks loudly when key turns to start.
Removed and tested with A/C relay from ford truck. Still just clicks.
Will check switch now.

Thanks!

BW
 
   / new to this forum kioti ck30 will not start #34  
Did not have any effect when I removed the leads and jumped across them.

If the relay on the firewall clicks when the key is turned to start, does that mean the clutch safety switch is not the issue?

Thanks!

BW
 
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   / new to this forum kioti ck30 will not start #35  
If the relay on the firewall clicks when the key is turned to start, does that mean the clutch safety switch is not the issue?
BW

Yes, but...

The clutch safety switch is between the key switch and the relay. So the relay should not function unless the clutch switch is closed. But there are other relays (like the glow relay) that also click on when you turn the switch (to on, but not to start). If there is more than one of the same type relay on the firewall the assembler could have switched connectors between relays. All would still work fine except the start relay would not be where you expect to find it. So I'm wondering if we've misidentified the start relay. If you have a helper, you can try turning the key to the crank position with and without the clutch fully depressed. The real start relay should click with the clutch pedal full down when you turn the key to crank but not with the clutch pedal up. The start relay should not click when the key is just turned to on or pre-glow (but the glow relay will).

Another member here reported that the connectors were switched between the start and glow relays (which were the same type). His start relay (which should have been the glow relay) was bad but the relay he thought was the start relay (and was actually functioning as the glow relay) always tested good. It was just luck they he found the real problem.
 
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   / new to this forum kioti ck30 will not start #36  
To identify I had the clutch depressed with the hold down clip and the tractor in neutral, and i stood on the drivers side of the tractor and touched the relays while turning the key to start. I felt the relay click and tried it several times. I then removed the single nut and tried another relay from the truck. It clicked as well. It was the relay closest to the drivers side.
I did not do anything to the other relay.

I think that was the best way to identify the correct one, but maybe not. I will get a helper to hold that relay while i depress the clutch and try to turn the key to feel if it is the correct one.

I suppose the relay can still click and be no good and using one from a truck was hardly the best way either.

The relay only has a hint of a paper label on it with no way to identify it, and unlike an automotive one it had a screw bracket to bolt it to the firewall.

Do you have any idea what the correct replacment from a local NAPA would be?

Thanks!

BW
 
   / new to this forum kioti ck30 will not start #37  
I don't have a NAPA number.

The relay can certainly click and still be bad (e.g. burned contacts). I guess I was putting a lot of faith in the relay you substituted and claims by others that this is a common automotive relay. There is another possibility and that's a bad wire or connection, either feeding the relay or between the relay and the starter.

Do you have a voltmeter/multimeter and and experience usinga schematic? I don't have the exact schematic for your model but I have similar ones. If I were doing this and had a meter, I'd first test the voltage at the small starter terminal, which should jump to 12 volts when you turn the key to start with the clutch pressed. If that tests good we have been looking in the wrong place so far. Assuming that tests bad (like near zero volts at the starter) I'd test the contact connections (not the coil connections) at the unplugged relay connector. One should read about 12 volts and the other should be zero. Jumpering across these two should crank the engine regardless of the key switch or clutch switch. Don't try this unless you are sure you know which are the connections for the contacts . If not, it's either the wrong connector or there is a wire problem. You can ensure it's the right connector by checking continuity between the small starter terminal and the start relay contact on the connector that was zero volts.

The push-button you proposed (from 12v to the small starter terminal) will work for a while. The problem is the sparking (which you no doubt observed) and fairly high current that will eventually burn out a push-button switch unless it's designed to handle that current and arcing.

Fixing wireing problems is very messy so it's best to test everything else first and do enough testing that you know exactly which wire is bad. Often it's better to just run a new bypass wire than to tear into a factory cable bundle unless you have multiple failures (sometimes caused by rodents.
 
   / new to this forum kioti ck30 will not start #38  
Thanks!

I been using a meter to get this far. Couldn't find one in the barn so i got one from my son. Used it to prove there was nothing at the small terminal at the starter and the back of the key switch was 12.7v by having my wife turn the key for me.

I am done for today ready to quit for the evening.
Tomorrow I will check the relay like you suggested.

Thanks for all the help!

BW
 
   / new to this forum kioti ck30 will not start #39  
BW: See private message.
 
   / new to this forum kioti ck30 will not start #40  
ritcheyvs: She started up normal this am, the started acting up. See private message.
 

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