Buying Advice Newbie Questons

[PTBill]

Looking strongly at buying a PT-425 and had some questions. Never owned a tractor. Will be used to landscape and mow my 5 acres.

1) Power Trac Website seems to be down a lot - almost all the time. Makes me wonder about support. How is customer service?
2) Have 22 degree slopes that I have to side hill. Current Cub Cadet 54" zero turn can handle it. Can a PT-425 mow a 22 degree side hill?
3) Tiller - do you have to till backwards or forward or either? Can you change which direction the tines turn?
4) Aerator - have hard clay. Can you use it backwards and forward? Some members seem to like it some not. How big a plug can it pull?
5) In general are the attachments more or less expensive than Kubota BX's? How is the quality of the attachments being they are single sourced?
6) For members with older PT's - any trouble getting parts?
7) Does Power Trac negotiate on price?
8) Anyone near Charlotte with a PT-425?

Looks like a great capable different looking machine.

Thanks for any feedback.

Bill

 

[woodlandfarms]

1) Might be your internet. I don't go there a lot but have never had an issue accessing... This said, PT is about as computer illiterate as they get. They do not answer emails. This said, customer service is the best in the business. As they do not have repair centers, everything is handled through the factory. You get instant and generally correct answers immediatly. We all have a personal relationship with the head honcho, Terry.

2) It should. I don't own one but someone will chime in

5) In my opinion, more expensive - 2 things. first is that the implements are hydraulic and tend to be more expensive than mechanically driven. Second, you can easily adapt other tractors equipment to the PT. many of us buy used implements and modify them to fit. If / When you buy the PT, try to buy all your implements then. Afterward it becomes pricey to ship (although you sound close to the factory).

Hugely capable machine. Everyone loves their machine (everyone hates it as well but that is another story). They are so much more versatile than a normal tractor. Only real downside is that they are not great at ground engagement (plowing).

 

[KentT]

Regarding slopes, the engine specs for the new Subaru-Robin powered 425s says the engine lubrication system is rated for up to 20 degree slopes. The older Kohler Command powered models were rated for up to 25 degree slopes.

I regularly mow slopes between 25-30 degrees with my old (2001) Kohler powered PT-425, but I mow the steep areas going up and down, not sideways. The machine will "crab" going around side slopes of 20 degrees. (Power Trac slope mowers come with dual wheels all around to help minimize crabbing.) I've also upgraded to larger displacement wheel motors (more torque, less speed) to climb the steep slopes.

As far as the cost of attachments - it depends on the attachment. PTs come with a loader built in - the 800 lb lift capacity far exceeds the Kubota BX series, BTW. The only additional cost is your choice of bucket, which are competitively priced. So, compare PT-425 price with a bucket of you choice to a BX with a loader. For occasional digging (up to 4 feet) the PT minihoe is a bargain, in comparison to the BX backhoe at a small fraction of the price - though it is not as capable as a real backhoe such as the one for the BX.

The PT, being an articulated loader/tool carrier by design, comes with "power beyond" built in, so the cost of adding a hydraulically actuated front attachment such as the power-angle snow/dirt blade is often much less than for traditional tractors. The attachment itself is competitively priced.

Because the PTO on a PowerTrac is hydraulic, it is only the PTO-powered implements that are more expensive, since each must have its own hydraulic motor and hoses. Examples include mower decks, tiller, stump grinder, post-hole digger, etc. Even then, they are typically not that much more expensive than for traditional tractors, and far less expensive than those for skidsteers, mini-skids like the Toro Dingo, etc. The PT attachments are typically not as heavy duty, however, and more like "prosumer" grade, rather than HD commercial grade.

Biggest issue that really impacts price is that the PT attachments use their proprietary hydraulic quick attach system, so finding used PT attachments is more difficult and they're often higher priced, accordingly. Many of us simply modify used tractor attachments by welding on a PT QA plate. I personally have 3 - a landscape rake, boxblade, and tiller.

With all that said, there is simply no comparison to a traditional tractor when it comes to maneuverability (especially in close quarters), versatility (ability to change attachments in seconds means you use more attachments, each better suited to the specific task, rather than trying to do more things with the attachment currently mounted), visibility (having the attachment up front in your line of sight is something you have to experience to fully appreciate) and the resulting amount of time it takes to get the job done. A PT will often accomplish the same landscaping job in half the time as a traditional tractor...

I sold a little Kubota with loader and replaced it with my PT-425, and have never regretted that move. The PT is far more slope-capable and far faster to get the job done...

Hope this LONG answer is helpful...

 

[woodlandfarms]

BTW, the fact your name says PTBill means you bought the thing already so why the questions ;-)

 

[J_J]

3) Tiller - do you have to till backwards or forward or either? Can you change which direction the tines turn?

Most all hyd motor attachments can be turn backwards by switching hoses around.

However, do your tines have cutting edges both sides.

If so, then you can reverse cut/till

 

[PTBill]

Thanks everyone for all the answers. Looking more at the PT Videos I have more questions.

1) Compared to a SCUT with the same turning radius - does having the mower out in front on the PT-425 make the inside turning radius much greater than the 37" spec?
2) Most of the weight on the PT looks like it is in the rear - when the FEL is picking up a heavy load does the PT oscillate 12 degrees in the middle with all the weight in the front?
I guess I'm asking does it buckle in the middle?
3) Is there a reason a SCUT can't have the same attachments in the front like the PT?

Thanks much,
Bill

 

[Buggs67]

I was looking at the PT 245 on You Tube. That BH is a joke. As far as the FEL I didn't see any videos showing the 245, only the 180 and that looked like a toy. And the only mowing video I saw was a front mount brush hog; that looked capable.

I guess I'm questioning why not a BX or a Kioti CS2410 or JD or such SCUT? I guess cost is the factor? IDK the cost of a PT.

Not trying to rain on your parade but when I bought my CUT people said go big enough. I could've managed with a BX or CS or such but glad I went one step up.

Whatever your decision, I wish you good luck.

 

[KentT]

Thanks everyone for all the answers. Looking more at the PT Videos I have more questions.

1) Compared to a SCUT with the same turning radius - does having the mower out in front on the PT-425 make the inside turning radius much greater than the 37" spec?
2) Most of the weight on the PT looks like it is in the rear - when the FEL is picking up a heavy load does the PT oscillate 12 degrees in the middle with all the weight in the front?
I guess I'm asking does it buckle in the middle?
3) Is there a reason a SCUT can't have the same attachments in the front like the PT?

Thanks much,
Bill

1. The mower out front performs very similar to a 3-pt mounted mower, in relation to the impart of turning radius - it swings in relation to the nearest set of wheels. A belly mower, being between the wheels, follows the turning more closely. With that said, the 60" finish mower for the PT425 is so much wider than the 45" wheel track that the effective mowing radius is much less than 37". The smaller 48" brush cutter's mowing radius is likely larger than 37", but I'm not sure exactly what it is.

2. It does't buckle - it twists in the center up to 12 degrees to keep all FOUR wheels firmly on the ground and the weight as evenly distributed as possible. This is far more stable than a SCUT with a heavy load in the bucket. The weight of the tractor is evenly distrributed, and the only variables are the load you're liftng, and the slope/angle the front wheels are resting on. Note that the PT's hydraulics are actually much stronger than its rated lift capacity. The phenomenon called "PT pucker" where the back wheels come off the ground is quite common, and disconcerting the first time it happens. Once accustomed to it, you don't think twice, and simply adjust or correct as needed., and press on.

3. There are few CUTS (and no SCUTS I'm aware of) that have a mechanical front PTO, and their hydraulic system doesn't have the flow required for hydraulically driven front attachments such as mowers, tillers, etc. Even with loader or power beyond circuits, their hydraulic flow is only sufficient for intermittently operating hydraulic cylinders - not continuously operating hydraulic motors. Most the small tractors I've seen with mechanical front PTOs are very expensive European imports.

 

[MossRoad]

Welcome to TBN, by the way... :thumbsup:

7) Does Power Trac negotiate on price?

I don't think so. Maybe for fleet sales! :laughing:

As for the out front mower... I have a 60" for my PT425. It sticks out about 7-8" wider on each side than the drive wheels do. So its gonna cut a tighter diameter circle than the tractor wheels make, almost a foot narrower. However, you'll find out that only the front wheels on the mower deck caster. The rears are fixed in a straight direction, so in really tight turns on soft lawns, the rear mower deck wheels will tear the grass if you're not paying attention. I intentionally make sweeping turns in my mowing pattern after heavy rains or in irrigated lawns because of this. If I have to turn tight in those situations, I just pull back the joystick a tad to take a bit of pressure off the deck and slap it back forward after the turn is complete.

I like the front mounted deck for several reasons. Most importantly, you can see it at all times. You can stuff it under low hanging branches and bushes. You can mow an inside corner and only leave maybe a 9" triangle not cut in the very corner. You can't do that with other types of mowers.

Cons of the front mounted mower are its rear discharge. If you want to bag clippings or leaves, you can't. You can tow a lawn sweeper behind if you like, but with a 60" wide deck and a 48" wide sweeper, you're going to miss the windrow that tends to build up on the right side. You can offset the sweeper to grab the majority, though. I don't bag grass clippings so its no big deal for me. I do pick up leaves however, and I need a better solution.

 

[woodlandfarms]

I was looking at the PT 245 on You Tube. That BH is a joke. As far as the FEL I didn't see any videos showing the 245, only the 180 and that looked like a toy. And the only mowing video I saw was a front mount brush hog; that looked capable.

I guess I'm questioning why not a BX or a Kioti CS2410 or JD or such SCUT? I guess cost is the factor? IDK the cost of a PT.

Not trying to rain on your parade but when I bought my CUT people said go big enough. I could've managed with a BX or CS or such but glad I went one step up.

Whatever your decision, I wish you good luck.

Not sure i would agree with the 2445 backhoe being a joke. When you consider something in the formfactor of a BX or CS in the 2400 level I think the PT will run circles around it.

Bunch of reasons to go with a PT over a Cut or Scut. Manueverability, ease of attachments, ease of getting on and off the tractor, stability, buying american made. Downside is ground engagement and no local factory service. PT does not plow worth a hoot, and is only sold via the factory in Tennessee. Outside of that the PT is a pretty fantastic machine.

 

[MossRoad]

Virginia...

 

[PTBill]

Thanks once again for all the input. Went to Tazewell this morning and met with Chris.

Really great showroom - very organized. Saw one slope mower that automatically adjusts the seat tilt when on steep slopes - nice. Also, saw the PT that is used in mining applications - what a beast. Looks like a monster PT or a military Hummer with a FEL. Mentioned to Chris that the website had been down the last few weeks and he said the problem has been fixed. Website is now working again as of yesterday. Got a CD with video of the different tractors and attachments - well done. Also, had a quick tour of the warehouse with all the inventory - also very organized. I'm satisfied that Power Trac will be around and will stand by their products for many years. Also, like the fact that the price sheets are openly provided unlike other Tractor dealers I have visited. No pressure to buy from Chris.

I was able to demo the PT425 with the 60" mower, 48" tiller, and Mini Hoe. It is great to be able to demo both the attachments and tractor together.

First impressions of the PT - take into consideration that I have never owned or operated a tractor.

It was longer than I thought, more rectangular than square. What a hunk of metal - solid. Looks like the body/frame will last 2-3 life times. Low tech in that there is no LCD panel for the instruments. Simple and sturdy. Not much of a platform for your feet. Steering wheel and seat does not fit the sturdiness of the rest of the tractor. Steering wheel a little upright for me - no adjustment. Quick attach was great. I did notice that the attachments seemed to shake somewhat. Chris said that was the nature of the quick attach. Although the attachment is locked secure it is not real tight so it wiggles.

The 60" mower seems solid but it discharges grass to the rear and I could see the clippings. I have a mulching deck on my zero turn and the clippings are really fine. Not sure the Power Trac deck would be sufficient, would be interested in other comments. Chris said the mower was one attachment that you wanted to have the revs all the way up for proper blade speed so that was not the problem with the clippings.

The tiller performed well. Chris even tilled up a gravel and sand driveway - impressive.

The mini hoe did a great job. Looks like a very good value to me.

Chris confirmed that the larger motor option is no longer available on the PT425 - I had read this in the forum. Asked about heat issues with current motor. He did not think it was a problem. Also, asked about the problems I had read about starting in the cold. He showed me the heat pad in the PT425 demo that he thought worked well. Asked about some sort or clutch to isolate the hydraulics from the motor for easier starting. He said it would add length and cost way too much (around 5 grand if I remember correctly).

I work on my own car and lawn mower so doing my own maintenance with Power Trac assistance fits me. I really dislike playing the "stealer" to fix my equipment. All in all I like the PT425. I like its looks, it's different. I'm currently stuck in SCUT versus PT425 purgatory.

Bill

 

[MossRoad]

Thanks once again for all the input. Went to Tazewell this morning and met with Chris.

Really great showroom - very organized. Saw one slope mower that automatically adjusts the seat tilt when on steep slopes - nice. Also, saw the PT that is used in mining applications - what a beast. Looks like a monster PT or a military Hummer with a FEL. Mentioned to Chris that the website had been down the last few weeks and he said the problem has been fixed. Website is now working again as of yesterday. Got a CD with video of the different tractors and attachments - well done. Also, had a quick tour of the warehouse with all the inventory - also very organized. I'm satisfied that Power Trac will be around and will stand by their products for many years. Also, like the fact that the price sheets are openly provided unlike other Tractor dealers I have visited. No pressure to buy from Chris.

I was able to demo the PT425 with the 60" mower, 48" tiller, and Mini Hoe. It is great to be able to demo both the attachments and tractor together.

First impressions of the PT - take into consideration that I have never owned or operated a tractor.

It was longer than I thought, more rectangular than square. What a hunk of metal - solid. Looks like the body/frame will last 2-3 life times. Low tech in that there is no LCD panel for the instruments. Simple and sturdy. Not much of a platform for your feet. Steering wheel and seat does not fit the sturdiness of the rest of the tractor. Steering wheel a little upright for me - no adjustment. Quick attach was great. I did notice that the attachments seemed to shake somewhat. Chris said that was the nature of the quick attach. Although the attachment is locked secure it is not real tight so it wiggles.

The 60" mower seems solid but it discharges grass to the rear and I could see the clippings. I have a mulching deck on my zero turn and the clippings are really fine. Not sure the Power Trac deck would be sufficient, would be interested in other comments. Chris said the mower was one attachment that you wanted to have the revs all the way up for proper blade speed so that was not the problem with the clippings.

The tiller performed well. Chris even tilled up a gravel and sand driveway - impressive.

The mini hoe did a great job. Looks like a very good value to me.

Chris confirmed that the larger motor option is no longer available on the PT425 - I had read this in the forum. Asked about heat issues with current motor. He did not think it was a problem. Also, asked about the problems I had read about starting in the cold. He showed me the heat pad in the PT425 demo that he thought worked well. Asked about some sort or clutch to isolate the hydraulics from the motor for easier starting. He said it would add length and cost way too much (around 5 grand if I remember correctly).

I work on my own car and lawn mower so doing my own maintenance with Power Trac assistance fits me. I really dislike playing the "stealer" to fix my equipment. All in all I like the PT425. I like its looks, it's different. I'm currently stuck in SCUT versus PT425 purgatory.

Bill

Well, if you decide to go the Power Trac route, the first thing you'll want to do is get a spinner knob for the steering wheel. It makes all the difference in the world. $10 at Tractor Supply. :thumbsup:

I have the 60" mower on my 2001 model year PT425. It works fine for my lawn and it worked fine for the Little League ball diamonds. It is not, however, the best mower for what I would call a 'show lawn'. If you keep the blades sharp, it gives a nice cut, but it tends to windrow on the right rear of the deck if you let your lawn go long. You can resolve this by mowing in a clockwise fashion from outside the lawn to the center, or counter-clockwise from the center out. But if you are into nice stripe patterns on your perfect lawn, you're going to have to cut more frequently or there will be windrows on every other pass. Also, its a pretty wide single piece deck, so if you have any sharp undulations in your lawn, you may scalp. The front casters are easily adjusted for height with just a pin and spacer rings, but the rear wheels require wrenches. Not a problem if, like me, you never change your cutting height. But if you do, its a 5 minute job with two wrenches.

Funny that you mention it was longer than you thought. I think its just the opposite! :laughing: Find me another 25HP tractor that can lift 800 pounds that can fit in the bed of a standard pickup truck with an attachment attached. Yes, with the front mounted mower, it is long compared to a lawn tractor with a belly mower, or a zero turn unit. But compared to a tractor with front end loader, its a very compact unit.

Yes, the attachments shake on the quick attach. Mine do, to. But 14 years later, none have ever fallen off!

As for cold weather starting, I'm sure he wouldn't think it was a problem. He lives in southern VA. Get that sucker up into a more northern climate and see how it goes. I hope the heat pad works.

And finally, a clutch between the hydraulics and the motor.... yep, it might lengthen the unit. But $5K.... I doubt that. I've seen some electric clutches for small off-road vehicles for about $1k.

Anyhow, welcome to Purgatory... we've all been there at one time. :dance1:

 

[woodlandfarms]

I think you said it was out of your budget but did you try the 1430?

 

[johara1]

Do not leave without the big bucket!!!! that is the best attachment of them all… 9 cubic feet filled with modified stone and just runs off with it. Try that with any other machine the size of a 425. they don't come close…….. jim

 

[PTBill]

I think you said it was out of your budget but did you try the 1430?

Yes the 1430 would be more than I would spend.

 

[PTBill]

Well, if you decide to go the Power Trac route, the first thing you'll want to do is get a spinner knob for the steering wheel. It makes all the difference in the world. $10 at Tractor Supply. :thumbsup:

I have the 60" mower on my 2001 model year PT425. It works fine for my lawn and it worked fine for the Little League ball diamonds. It is not, however, the best mower for what I would call a 'show lawn'. If you keep the blades sharp, it gives a nice cut, but it tends to windrow on the right rear of the deck if you let your lawn go long. You can resolve this by mowing in a clockwise fashion from outside the lawn to the center, or counter-clockwise from the center out. But if you are into nice stripe patterns on your perfect lawn, you're going to have to cut more frequently or there will be windrows on every other pass. Also, its a pretty wide single piece deck, so if you have any sharp undulations in your lawn, you may scalp. The front casters are easily adjusted for height with just a pin and spacer rings, but the rear wheels require wrenches. Not a problem if, like me, you never change your cutting height. But if you do, its a 5 minute job with two wrenches.

Funny that you mention it was longer than you thought. I think its just the opposite! :laughing: Find me another 25HP tractor that can lift 800 pounds that can fit in the bed of a standard pickup truck with an attachment attached. Yes, with the front mounted mower, it is long compared to a lawn tractor with a belly mower, or a zero turn unit. But compared to a tractor with front end loader, its a very compact unit.

Yes, the attachments shake on the quick attach. Mine do, to. But 14 years later, none have ever fallen off!

As for cold weather starting, I'm sure he wouldn't think it was a problem. He lives in southern VA. Get that sucker up into a more northern climate and see how it goes. I hope the heat pad works.

And finally, a clutch between the hydraulics and the motor.... yep, it might lengthen the unit. But $5K.... I doubt that. I've seen some electric clutches for small off-road vehicles for about $1k.

Anyhow, welcome to Purgatory... we've all been there at one time. :dance1:

Is there any good leaf solutions for the PT. I believe I read that someone (perhaps you) had tried towing a lawn sweeper while mowing for leaves.

Also, from what I have read there is no ballast required for the PT which would be a big plus for the PT. Attaching front or rear ballast seems expensive as well as a real pain.

Thanks,
Bill

 

[MossRoad]

Is there any good leaf solutions for the PT. I believe I read that someone (perhaps you) had tried towing a lawn sweeper while mowing for leaves.

Also, from what I have read there is no ballast required for the PT which would be a big plus for the PT. Attaching front or rear ballast seems expensive as well as a real pain.

Thanks,
Bill

Yes, I have a Brinley 42" lawn sweeper that I tow behind the PT425. It does a great job of picking up WHOLE leaves, but fills up very fast. It does NOT do a good job of picking up chopped leaves after passing over them with the PT425 60" mower. They get chopped up too fine and drop down into the grass too far for the sweeper to pick them up. I put a long rope on it so that I can dump it from the seat of the PT425. That is handy. However, its almost too lightweight of a unit to be used with the PT. It more of a garden tractor type attachment. I have damaged it on several occasions. The PT doesn't even know its back there and I don't feel any resistance when pulling it and have hit some items, or jammed a large stick into it and just dragged it all over the place. One time I even managed to tip the sweeper over and not notice it. The neighbor waved to me, I said "WHAT?" He pointed behind me.... I bent the bajeebers out of it! :laughing:

So, I end up not chopping up the leaves and just towing it with the PT, pick up the whole leaves, and make a bazillion passes. If I chop up the leaves, there are just too many and they suffocate the lawn. I'd like to find a turbine blower some day, but don't really need it. Leaf pickup only takes me maybe 2 hours, three times a fall.

There is no ballast required on the PT. However, many people have added weight to the rear just to be able to pick up more without the rears coming off the ground. Some have added liquid ballast to the rear tires as well. Personally, I think that may end up stressing the center articulating joints, so I won't do it. I'll find another way to deal with heavy items.

 

[PTBill]

Sorry for more questions....

I have been told that the front axle on a SCUT pivots - does the PT have any advantage with its 12 degrees oscillation over the SCUT?
Turning radius of a SCUT is 90" - turning radius of the PT425 is 95" even though it has articulated steering of +/- 45 degrees? Is this correct?

Does the PT425 have an advantage over the SCUT in handling?

Thanks,
Bill

 

[MossRoad]

Speaking only for the PT425 that I have and not any other Power Trac models...

The PT bends left/right in the middle 45 degrees in either direction. In addition to that, the front half can be leaning to either side up to a 12 degree different slope than the rear half (I can't remember if its 12 degrees total, or 12 degrees for each end, that would be 25 degrees total. I'll have to check that out). And it can do that in full turn in either direction, or going forward or backward. So when traversing uneven terrain or obstacles, there's a better chance of all four wheels being in contact with the ground at all times than there is on a conventional tractor.

Also, take into consideration turning. The way the PT works, the left front and right rear wheel motors are connected in series. So they always rotate in the same direction. Likewise, the right front and left rear are in series, so they always rotate in the same direction. Now imagine you are sitting on the tractor, not moving forward or backwards. If you crank the steering wheel all the way towards the right, both the front and rear right tires will roll towards each other while both the front and rear left tires roll away from each other. When you turn to the left, again, without moving forward or backward, the left tires roll towards each other and the right tires roll away from each other. Very little turf scuffing occurs with these machines.

If you try turning the wheel on a conventional tractor lock to lock without moving forward or backward, you'll tear the grass under the front tires. Kinda like squishing out a cigarette with the balls of your feet. Also, many conventional tractors, when in four wheel drive (or front wheel assist) will have problems scuffing the turf in tight turns. The differentials don't allow for it at tight angles and the front tires may plow instead of roll.

Another thing to remember is the very low center of gravity on a PT compared to a conventional tractor. Don't let the small ground clearance number of a PT discourage you. I take mine through the woods, over logs and debris, etc... it has a full plate steel underside that is pretty much a continuous skid plate. It is hard to damage these things. If I can get a tire onto it, I can probably go over it, without worrying about tipping over. I've only been hung up once. I went over a log on a downhill slope too slow and there was no earth on the other side and I got all 4 wheels in the air... think of a setting a turtle on a post. :laughing: Had to chainsaw a 2-3' section off the log, set that section of the log under the brush hog, and used the FEL to lift the front end of the unit up so I could pull out the section of log from under the tractor. Longest part of that ordeal was the walk of shame to the truck and back to retrieve the chainsaw. :cool2:

Anyhow, pound-for-pound, the PT is better at FEL tasks such as moving mulch, rocks, material, from point A to point B than a similar sized SCUT. Its better at snow removal. Its better at brush cutting. It lifts more than most SCUTs of similar weight. The Quick Attach let's you use it like a Swiss army knife. You can change non-powered implements in 15 seconds without getting off the tractor. Powered implements take about 30 seconds longer and requires you to get off the seat and hook up hydraulic hoses. It handles better than most SCUTs. Its a decent mower, but there are much better mowers. Trenchers? Post Hole Diggers? I don't have them, but from what I've seen, its no comparison, the PT wins hands down. It lacks the pulling power of a conventional tractor, but I have to wonder if a 1500# SCUT would have enough traction to pull stumps either.

Anyhow, have you seen any of the videos of my PT in action?