Newbie spends quality time on OLD tractor.(long)

[3RRL]

Hey George,
What a great story to tell. I really enjoyed reading your thread. I too had a chance a couple weeks ago to drive and old Ford "Golden Jubilee" mid 50's circa I think. It is in good running condition and I was surprised how easily it performed most everything I did with it, just like his modern tractor.

You must have had a ball learning to handle that big old tractor, especially with no safety features. More like an adventure.
Thanks for sharing all those pictures too. They are great.

 

[Soundguy]

Yep.. jubilee was the 1953 edition of the NAA ( 1953-1954 ).

Soundguy

 

[N80]

The Cases are the oldest tractors he uses on a regular basis but he has a very sad, beat up looking Ferguson (I'm assuming its from the early 50's) that actually runs. But, it doesn't get much use and I've never driven it.

Neat little tractor. I've been tempted to make him an offer on it and restore it. But all I need is another project! It is my understanding that A Ferguson would be fairly easy to restore and worth restoring.

 

[Volfandt]

Neat story. I learned to operate a tractor on a 48 Ferguson TE20 and although it didn't have any safety systems found on the newer tractors, I wouldn't hessitate to use it daily, that is if I still had it. It had 6v electrics and other than being stubborn to start in the cold, I worked it regularly up until I sold it approx 3 yrs ago when I went with a SCUT.
In the 16 or so yrs I had it, I replaced the oil pump, water pump and oil pan (bent it on a cut down corn stalk) and JB welded the gas tank, parts were still easy to find and cost cheaper than parts for my newer Craftsman & JD lawn & garden tractors.
Still miss that ole no frills hard working machine

 

[morningwood]

I am with soundguy, I will keep my almost 50 year old "junk" over anything they build today. Alot easier to work on and they are built like a tank.

I used my 1959 Fordson for daily tasks around my house and it does not miss a beat. For the money ( she just went through a total overhaul ) I spent for a 55HP tractor I cannot even buy a twenty year old John Deere or NH SCUT.

As soundguy stated, old iron was built to with stand the abuse of farmers not doing maintenance and the tractor doing real work on a daily basis. The tractors from 30 - 50 years ago were made to pull X bottom blow. I don't think any of the CUT's or SCUT's made today are meant to pull a plow. They are made for folks to baby them of there farmette.

Personally I would rather own a used machine that was worked hard and not babied it's whole life. Diesel engines are especially meant to be worked hard and not babied. As a old farmer around here told me when I was asking him about breaking in my new diesel engine he told me "drove it like you stole it".

Just my 2 cents,

Scott

P.S. Old iron appreciates while most new machines depreciate. If you don't beleive me, price a new 1960 JD 4010, JD 730 or a Ford 5000 and price one now.

 

[N80]

I am with soundguy, I will keep my almost 50 year old "junk" over anything they build today. Alot easier to work on and they are built like a tank.

If I had a 50 year old tractor, I'd probably keep it too. But after a few hours of doing actual work on one, I was glad to get back to my modern (although very basic) little L4400.

As soundguy stated, old iron was built to with stand the abuse of farmers not doing maintenance and the tractor doing real work on a daily basis.

That may be, but before we wax nostalgic (and maybe a little sentimental too) there are a lot of old tractors from 50 years ago....that didn't last fifty years...or even 20.

The tractors from 30 - 50 years ago were made to pull X bottom blow. I don't think any of the CUT's or SCUT's made today are meant to pull a plow.

I disagree. I know that my little L4400 can out pull one of my B-I-L's slightly larger JDs that is beefier all the way around but not nearly as powerful and lacks the benefit of 4wd. I don't know that my Kubota will last as long as his JD....but I bet it does.

They are made for folks to baby them of there farmette.

Any tractor will benefit from TLC.

P.S. Old iron appreciates while most new machines depreciate. If you don't beleive me, price a new 1960 JD 4010, JD 730 or a Ford 5000 and price one now.

The old iron depreciated right after it was new too.

 

[DmansPadge]

P.S. Old iron appreciates while most new machines depreciate. If you don't beleive me, price a new 1960 JD 4010, JD 730 or a Ford 5000 and price one now.

I think this comes from inflation catching up to them!

 

[morningwood]

George,

Not wanting to start a old tractor vs new tractor debate but I guess my point is that you can buy alot more old tractor than you can new tractor for the same amount of money. Yes, they do not come with a warranty and yes they will break down more often since they are old but they are going to be cheaper to repair and in my case they are paid for.

It sounds like you appreciate what we have now, which is great. Personally I will keep with my 3 speed crash box. Even though I am sure any hydro machine or syncro machine depending on the chore could work circles around me but at the end of the day but I know that the crash box will probably be working at the end of the day.

If you are ever passing through central Ohio stop buy and you are more than welcome to give the old Fordson a work out.

Scott

P.S. Dman, I agree with you. Plus the collectors market is also making them kind of pricey.

 

[N80]

Well, my new tractor is not HST or GST, just basic gear, and believe me, I like a simple gear driven machine both for the simplicity and economy.

I guess my point is that there are new tractors out there, both large and small that are extemely well made and durable and they come with all the modern safety features plus any number of modern niceties that range from 'luxury' items to really smart features that improve a machine's capabilities.

And I guess some of my feelings about old tractors come from my experiences with my B-I-L. For any given task that we set out to do on a tractor we might, at any moment get a setback of hours to weeks when something needs fixing. In the first picture I posted that is us trying to get the old Case to start. No luck. And it was a week or so before he got a new starter. And that very day we did the mowing, the clutch when out on that same Case. That was over a week ago and its still sitting in his shop.

But, its different strokes for different folks. Despite the fact that it probably affects his bottom line having to do repairs all the time...sometimes at the worst moment (hay on the ground, rain coming) he seems to enjoy working on them and I've never seen him get mad or frustrated when one of them breaks down.

And believe me, I'm not knocking these older machines. They are what they are.....very old and still earning their keep.

 

[N80]

Thinking about that old Case, it was really ahead of its time in a couple of ways.

First, the Case-O-Matic transmission. I really don't understand the details of it or how it is supposed to be beneficial, but, it was ahead of its time and is apparently fairly durable.

Second, independant PTO. Was this common on tractors from the early 60's? I personally like an independant PTO and it works exactly the same way as the one on my 2005 Kubota. I don't know if it is implemented the same way mechanically.

Third, it has a built in quick hitch on the lower lift arms. I'll try to get a picture sometime but it is quite ingenious. The end of the lift arm is like a hook with a little pintel the locks the hitch pins in place. This does not look like an addition, it looks like it came on the tractor. I think the lower lift arms are telescoping as well (or used to be). Both of the lift arm links are adjustable.

In any case (no pun intended) it looks like Case spent a lot of time thinking about the deisgn of this machine.

I also liked the cast iron rear wheel centers that act as wheel and weight.

 

[Soundguy]

I also am found of solid, tried and true technology.

The 8spd trans in my 1975 ford 5000 is virtually identical to the 8spd in my 2002 7610s. Good solid basic trannies.. one of fords best, in my opinion... perhaps a bit limeted in reverse and top end speed.. but overall.. not bad.

As for the difference in using an oldie vs a newbie.. I guess it depends on the machines.... Pretty much -0- difference mowing on my 5000 vs my 7610s.. even though 32 ys seperates them. In the dark.. hard to tell them apart too.. biggest difference is about 25 or so hp... not much else..

Soundguy

George,

Not wanting to start a old tractor vs new tractor debate but I guess my point is that you can buy alot more old tractor than you can new tractor for the same amount of money. Yes, they do not come with a warranty and yes they will break down more often since they are old but they are going to be cheaper to repair and in my case they are paid for.

It sounds like you appreciate what we have now, which is great. Personally I will keep with my 3 speed crash box. Even though I am sure any hydro machine or syncro machine depending on the chore could work circles around me but at the end of the day but I know that the crash box will probably be working at the end of the day.

If you are ever passing through central Ohio stop buy and you are more than welcome to give the old Fordson a work out.

Scott

P.S. Dman, I agree with you. Plus the collectors market is also making them kind of pricey.

 

[Soundguy]

I'd say by the mid 60's independent pto could be called 'commonly' available anyway.

At least a few manufacturers went to some kind of hitch help on the cat 2 tractors. Ford for instance had a flex hitch that let the ends telescope out and wobble to make hookup easier. Some JD did as well.

Soundguy

Thinking about that old Case, it was really ahead of its time in a couple of ways.

First, the Case-O-Matic transmission. I really don't understand the details of it or how it is supposed to be beneficial, but, it was ahead of its time and is apparently fairly durable.

Second, independant PTO. Was this common on tractors from the early 60's? I personally like an independant PTO and it works exactly the same way as the one on my 2005 Kubota. I don't know if it is implemented the same way mechanically.

Third, it has a built in quick hitch on the lower lift arms. I'll try to get a picture sometime but it is quite ingenious. The end of the lift arm is like a hook with a little pintel the locks the hitch pins in place. This does not look like an addition, it looks like it came on the tractor. I think the lower lift arms are telescoping as well (or used to be). Both of the lift arm links are adjustable.

In any case (no pun intended) it looks like Case spent a lot of time thinking about the deisgn of this machine.

I also liked the cast iron rear wheel centers that act as wheel and weight.

 

[MJB]

That jeep appears to be millitary, but definately not WWII vintage. The WWII units did not have tailgates, just a spare tire mount and fuel can holder on the back. I can't really see the windsheild well in that picture but it appears to be a single piece of glass. If so, I'd identify it as an early '50s Korean War vintage M38. The civilian version would be called a CJ3A. If it had the earlier split windsheild it would be a CJ2A. Many of the parts for jeeps of that vintage will interchange with each other so it could be a mix of several models. I used to collect old jeeps, here is a picture of a 1947 CJ2A I restored back when I was in High School.

As it happens I know a bit about old Case tractors as well. The Case-o-matic system basically consisted of an automatic transmission style torque converter mounted in front of a standard stick transmission. It had a lever which engaged a clutch to bypass (lock up) the torque converter. These units got a bad rap back in the day because many farmers didn't know how to operate them properly. The idea was that under normal opearating conditions you would run with the clutch engaged to bypass the conveter. If you ran into a tough spot that lugged the tractor down, you would disengage the bypass clutch and allow the torque multiplication of the converter to pull you through rather than having to stop and shift to a lower gear. As soon as the tough spot was passed, you were supossed to engage the bypass again. Farmers would run into trouble with the units when they ran for extended periods with the bypass clutch disengaged. The torque converter would overheat if worked too hard for too long. It is not unusual to see the paint burnt right off the bell housing on Case-o-matic tractors from this heat.

 

[Keith_B]

Third, it has a built in quick hitch on the lower lift arms. I'll try to get a picture sometime but it is quite ingenious. The end of the lift arm is like a hook with a little pintel the locks the hitch pins in place. This does not look like an addition, it looks like it came on the tractor. I think the lower lift arms are telescoping as well (or used to be). Both of the lift arm links are adjustable.

That is an Eagle Hitch, and was available on Case tractors from the late 40's through the early 60's. The Case-O-Matic transmissions became available around '56. The 830 was available from 1960 to 1969 or 1970, the one in the picture is an early 60's model from the looks of it and it having the eagle hitch. By the mid 60's the 830 had a Cat 2 3 point.

The 830 came with the rounded rear fenders, or if you had the Comfort King version it had a sqaured off rear fender. They also made an 830 Western with big fenders that covered much of the tire tread.

 

[scott_vt]

Afternoon MJB,
Beautiful restore on that old Willys' !!! Thanks for posting that pic !

 

[Grrrr]

MJB, that is one cool looking jeep. Do you still have it?

 

[MJB]

I sold the jeep about 6 years ago. Something had to go to make room for my JD 4300.

 

[N80]

That jeep appears to be millitary, but definately not WWII vintage.

Maybe not. I don't know much about them. He's the expert (just got back from some big military vehicle show out in Arkansas.) In any case, his primary interest is the WWII jeeps and from what he tells me, that is what most of the bodies, etc he has stored all over the place in old pole barns are.

The idea was that under normal opearating conditions you would run with the clutch engaged to bypass the conveter. If you ran into a tough spot that lugged the tractor down, you would disengage the bypass clutch and allow the torque multiplication of the converter to pull you through rather than having to stop and shift to a lower gear. As soon as the tough spot was passed, you were supossed to engage the bypass again.

Excellent info! That is exactly how my B-I-L told me to work it.

Farmers would run into trouble with the units when they ran for extended periods with the bypass clutch disengaged. The torque converter would overheat if worked too hard for too long. It is not unusual to see the paint burnt right off the bell housing on Case-o-matic tractors from this heat.

He pretty much told me to get the thing rolling and then engage the bypass clutch. If I hit a deep spot I'd disenage it just long enought to get through and then engage it again. Very strange system. I've never asked him why he has three of them. I suspect his Dad probably bought them new. I'll ask next time I'm down there.