No Guts HI gear HST

GerardC · Nov 24, 2004

( No live pto means pto stops (does this mean mid and rear) when push clutch in?)

Yes.

There is also a hand throttle to the right of the steering wheel. I use it as sort of a cruise control. Gerard

whenley · Nov 24, 2004

Thanks for the good live pto explaination. An overunning clutch would help this, yes? I thought there was an internal overrunnig clutch in most of the new tractors.

Also, to summarize. Those in the group who have the gear model CK are quite happy in its pulling capability? Good strong pull? Downside is live pto issue.

It would be fun to chain a CK to a Kub75/7610 and see who go would win a tug of war. I think CK (gear) may get it because of traction. Just a fun impractical thought.

Bob_Skurka · Nov 24, 2004

Also, to summarize. Those in the group who have the gear model CK are quite happy in its pulling capability? Good strong pull? Downside is live pto issue. 

whenley, that seems to superficially be a good summary, however, I think that tasks may change that. If the tractor is going to be used for FEL work or for mowing, then a HST machine is going to be more productive and get the jobs done faster/easier. If the tasks lean toward ground engagement work such as box blading, then the gear machine will have a mechanical advantage. This is not to say a gear tractor can't mow the lawn and an HST tractor can't pull a box blade, it is simply that those are far from the optimum choices. Certainly there are many happy gear users who do FEL work and many happy HST users who pull blades, the fact that they are happy does not mean that they are using the best tool for the job, it means that they are doing with what they have. (and I fall into that category every time I hook up a blade or a box blade to my tractors).

The HST versus GEAR issue is one that will be debated forever and I am not trying to take sides, I am simply pointing out that when choosing a transmission type, it is often best to look at the TASKS to be done and choose the transmission that is best suited for the MAJORITY of the tasks that the tractor will be used for. Every machine is a compramise is some way.

depratt_equip · Nov 24, 2004

The CK20's do have an overrunning clutch setup.

depratt_equip · Nov 24, 2004

When you are trying to go over a curb or other obstacle how far are you pressing down on your pedal? I just tried out one of our CK20's and it had no problem going over our curbs or a 4x4 chunk of wood in HI range 2wd. When going over an obstacle in order to get max power it is best not to mash the pedal but to slowly press down on it. Ours just climbed right over the curb and 4x4 2wd. If it wasn't so snowy outside today I would do some more testing, but I will have to hold off for better weather. I haven’t had any complaints about the power of the HST on a CK20, and have actually heard just the opposite; customers have been telling me about how much power they have. You may have an isolated problem. Hopefully your dealer and Kioti will take care of you. Wish we were closer so we could take a look at it.

whenley · Nov 24, 2004

Hey Depratt,
your test is encouraging. your results are different than mine.

When I tried it, I tried both a gradual application of pedal and also just mashing it. It struggled with both, mashing it was worst, it would take the engine from 2700rpm to stall. If I was only a couple inches away from the step, and the wheels could be rolling a bit before contact it would go up and over, but still strained a bit. But static against the step, no way. I also tried several rpm ranges - no big help.
The Kub7510HST climbed the small step no problem, no strain at all, in hi range, even a low rpm.

Thanks for all the responses. Will be interesting what comes of all this. Getut keep us informed.

Bob_Skurka · Nov 24, 2004

DePratt & whenley . . . were your tests in FORWARD or REVERSE? If I recall correctly from GETUTs posts, the biggest issues were in reverse.

depratt_equip · Nov 24, 2004

Yes I tired it both ways because I wasn't sure which way he tested his. I just did some more testing and drove up a little hill/bank in our alley. Will try to take some pictures sometime. It just drove right up it.

Bob_Skurka · Nov 24, 2004

Jon, as there appear to be a couple folks with this same problem, do you think the relief valve spring could be too weak on some of the tractors? Since this is a non-adjustable part, I wonder if the spring is simply too weak on SOME machines? Possibly fixed by simply replacing the spring?

getut · Nov 24, 2004

It was actually a little better in reverse. In all the testing I have done, no amount of pedal input makes a difference. I start by just barely depressing the pedal and slowly increase input. The only thing that changes is the moan of the hydraulics.

I have video of the issue, but I hesitate to post it until Kioti makes a judgement because I don't want them to feel like I jumped the gun and put out a lot of bad publicity and didn't give them a chance to come through. I have sent them another email and pointed them to this thread, but havn't gotten a response in over 4 weeks when they told me they would send someone out from Wilson to look at it "in a few weeks".

Make no mistake, I am angry about this as it is right now. But anger is relative and I can still be a satisfied customer if they get it resolved.

I even wear my Kioti hat. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I'll have to post pics of my newest little boy born 2 weeks ago. I'm in the hospital room right after his birth wearing it. Hows that for positive thinking.

I am MUCH more angry about the stuff that I can't do in low range. High range is a pain, but if I have to shift to low so be it. When I can't shift any lower but still can't move at all, then I can't get work done and it is quite embarrasing at that. I would just once like to see it with a full bucket of something other than sand or mulch (those are the only things I can push in to far enough to get a full bucket load).