No Guts HI gear HST

[Bob_Skurka]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I don't think my tractor could shear even a 1/4" grade 2 bolt. Shear strength is pretty stout. Unless you are talking about tensile strength against the threads.

As for your traction remarks, I disagree... traction is irrelevant as long as the tires don't slip... so as long the tractor being tested is on a material that causes the pop off to pop off before the tires start slipping then the test has been performed correctly. )</font>

<font color="black"> Getut, I suppose the shear versus tensile issue is one that is irrelevant as long as the same conditions are set up each time. I figured shear simply because a PHD, tiller, etc use shear bolts. As for the traction, that again is technical issue, I suggested what I did simply because it would eliminate a variable and allow for duplication without slippage, but technically I'd say you are correct.

As for the pulley & weight test you suggest, yep it would be better, but much harder to duplicate by other folks in other areas. I totally agree you could use your test to determine the exact weight against the drawbar. I fear that nobody else might take the time or effort to duplicate it so you could see if you are alone in your problems. One of the things with my broken bolt test is that if someone else wanted to duplicate it, they could pick up a dozen bolts at the lumber yard, at very low cost, and duplicate your test.

The remarkable thing about the folks here on TBN is that they are willing to help. If you can come up with a simple test, that can be duplicated with reasonable accuracy and consistency, then I think you might find folks here would gladly come to your aid. </font>

 

[shoppintractors]

<font color="blue">Does anyone else find this very troubling? Here is an owner with experience on 3 different CK20HST units and he notices power differences? I would think they should be so similar that any differences in power would be un-noticable.
</font>

Would they all have the exact same fuel? Moisture in the fuel? Unless any and all variables are exactly the same minor, differences could be possible.

Don

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="red"> Does anyone else find this very troubling? Here is an owner with experience on 3 different CK20HST units and he notices power differences? I would think they should be so similar that any differences in power would be un-noticable.


Would they all have the exact same fuel? Moisture in the fuel? Unless any and all variables are exactly the same minor, differences could be possible.

Don
</font>

As the post said he & his family all owned them, and just based on the way he wrote them, it appears that they are all in close proximity. So while fuel MIGHT make some difference, over time it would likely even out and be consistent even if they all bought fuel from different sources. Higher moisture content in one load of fuel might be met with the next shipment that had none, etc. So time, even just 4 or 5 tankfulls, should be an averaging factor that would likely eliminate fuel as a significant factor.

HOWEVER, the larger factor to consider really is that the power issue seems to be related to the HST and that runs off a pump that should be IDENTICAL from one tractor the the next of the same make & model with INTERCHANGABLE parts. The engine needs to only run enough to power the hydraulic systems that run the transmission, from that point on the engine should be basically irrelevant and the HST system becomes the big factor. If I understand Getut's issues, they are HST issues. If I understood the power observations cited by Icisled, I understood them to be related to the transmission (driving into gravel piles, etc)

 

[shvl73]

Does anyone know if these HST units are proprietary or are they used in other brands? I was wondering if they are a common make, maybe other brands are using a different size/duty rating etc.

 

[shoppintractors]

Bob,

My thoughts are you took Icisled comments out of context. If you include his complete thought.....

<font color="blue"> I have operated the other 2 CK20s and I would say that there are differences in the power. However slight they may be, to me they are noticable. Now you will have to take that with a grain of salt as I am proud of my tractor. </font>

So as not to get overly-****-lytical my general response is.....IMO...every tractor will have it's individual nuances due to a multitude of variables.

My .02 cents /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Don

PS: I'm not discounting the issues GETUT is experiencing.

 

[lcisled]

Just to clarify what I was trying to say. I think that there are slight differences in the tractors but if there was a way to measure the pulling force I think that they would all be in about the same range. I think that mine is a little more "broke in" because of the hours.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Don, I may be wrong this time, I've certainly been wrong before.

But as the context of the thread is about HST problems and as Icisled wrote: <font color="blue"> I can mow in high range. I cannot pull the tiller or the rake without having the tractor in 4x4, I lose traction. I can spin the tires and fill the bucket into a crushed rock pile that I use for my drive. . . I can stop the tractor with the rake . . . in hard compacted ground. </font> I guess it strikes me that the issues he is talking about are not engine issues but HST issues since he has the ability to spin the tires and since he mentions losing traction. I didn't notice anything that would be considered engine related (such as the tiller bogging down from lack of HP or similar issues).

Maybe Icisled could clarify?

So Icisled, the power differences between the 4 CK20HSTs that your family purchased (3 remaining) are the power differences that you notice HST or engine differences?

As for your statement that <font color="red"> every tractor will have it's individual nuances due to a multitude of variables </font> quality control measures should be tight enough to keep these fairly simple machines consistent. It is one thing for a minor variance to be detected by a measuring device, it is something else when actual users can detect differences. If the quality control measures are not rigid, then there will be power variences that are wide enough for users to detect, and that is, in itself a problem that we begat more problems.

 

[getut]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate wildly.

I am thinking ALL of the CK20HST's have this problem. I think some people are easier to please than others. Go all the way back to kkids response in this thread. He mentions a <font color="red"> 3" </font> step test. Let me state the significance of that... THREE INCHES... a similar Kubota went over 3" with no problem in high range. That is so significant because I actually did the test with a 1 1/2" step , not 3" <font color="red">and mine wouldn't make it over it </font> .

Now for more significance and sorry to bring up something Kioti John said to me in a PM... but he did the test on his. He said that his went over the 1 1/2" step <font color="red"> but it struggled doing it. </font>

Kioti John is obviously very happy with his purchase. I say even if my tractor had made it over the 1 1/2" step as his had, I would still have been just as upset. A 1 1/2" step making a <font color="red"> tractor</font> struggle??? That isn't right.

Again... I expect more. People have rationalized the issue because they seem scared to think something they spent so much money on is not functioning correctly. They have tried to rationalize that high range is only for travel? What if due to this holiday season, I put on 20 lbs. .. I have to worry about HST popping off before pulling me up the driveway now??? What if I want to tow a trailer to the neighbors in high range when it will just barely pull itself???

I think some people with the less evident version of this problem are playing ostrich (head in sand). I'm not trying to make anyone mad, but I've heard it over and over, this rationalizing what the tractor won't do because SOMETHING in the hydraulic system pops off too soon.

Arghhhh

 

[cdt80]

Hi all! I have been watching this forum for some time now and my brother icisled convinced me to respond to this thread. I am a grain farmer with numerous tractors ranging in hp from 450 down to 18. I also have a mechanical background. I don't want to seem negative but I can't believe the way the ck20's are getting picked apart. I have 1 yr old 350 hp combine with hydro that won't climb a 4x4 in road gear given the instances quoted. They aren't designed to and consequently they won't. The HSTck20's pretty much do what they were intended for and that's about it. Simple as that. No questioning quality control... They are a 20 hp tractor not a bulldozer. My lawn mower has more hp than my ck20. My advice: Decide BEFORE you purchase the tractor what you want to do with this tractor and purchase the size which will get the job done. For instance I can think of no time where a ck30 was too big (realistically) and a ck20 was just right. If you want to do more than a ck20 can provide buy a bigger tractor. Or go slower.

 

[getut]

If your logic were true then Kubota made their 21HP tractor able to go over a 3" step in high range through... levitation?

Sorry to be a smart arse. I've started to get a little touchy over the excuses people are making for something that obviously is either broken or undersized with the hydraulic system and I am sorry. A combine is not meant to pull disks or a subsoiler or even a trailer... It has a very small set of defined tasks for which it works well.

Going slower is not an option either when it won't move. I had even mentioned a long time back that if the HST is functioning as designed (which I highly doubt, unless they did it on purpose for cost savings from using a higher rated HST unit, which is also unacceptable), then it at least needs a creeper gear (lower than low range) so that at the very least it won't stop completely and you can get the job done, albeit at a painfully slow pace.