O my, I am comfused

[AxleHub]

Who is risking more, the person who pays $20,000 up front or the person who spends $10,000 knowing they may (or may not) need to have a shop split the tractor in the future and fix something to the tune of $3,000. In the end, the first person is guaranteed to be $20K down on cash flow. While the second person has a chance that they may spend more than $10,000. The first person's risk is guaranteed. They are also guaranteed to lose more in depreciation than the person who buys used. I guess I think of risk differently than you. Financially, buying new is much more risky than buying used.

Greetings Gladehound,

Its obvious you are not a stranger to debate . . but for different reasons neither am I. Your point of math was clever . . but faulty because in a 5 year warranty period an investment is protected. But in a used purchade you can have MULTIPLE costs . . even those that can exceed the original investment. So here's an example.

My new 15000 tractor has 5 years of claim protection again righteous issues. No co pays no hanging charges and for 287.00 total during the same 5 years I also have damage insurance for hail flood fire theft overturn etc..

On a used purchase from day one you have unlimited risk up to the original cost. So 2 years goes by with no problems and then the engine or transmisdion goes. Lets say that number you mentioned of 3000.00 comes into play. So now 2 yesrs in you have 13000 invested and something else happens. At this point you have to fix it . . So thats a cheap one . . Only 1500.00. Investment up to14500.00. So now the front axle breaks. And 2000.00 isn't an option because you already have 14500 invested. And then floods happen like south carolina or california had recently and your property insurance doesn't cover flooding.

Point is . . My 15000 tractor would have been covered for all that and more and yours isn't.

My point is that used equipment carries a financial risk that you don't want to admit. To say it won't happen is illogical. Point is if both our tractors are lost to flooding after other repairs . . Only one of us gets compensated for it . . mine.

I've owned lots of used equipment . . But my 20 year tractor will start out its first 5 years with me breaking it in instead of someone else . . and Massey keeping its guarantees and Agco insurance covering catastrophies and theft etc..

But you are good at debate.

 

[dragoneggs]

Greetings Gladehound,

Its obvious you are not a stranger to debate . . but for different reasons neither am I. Your point of math was clever . . but faulty because in a 5 year warranty period an investment is protected. But in a used purchade you can have MULTIPLE costs . . even those that can exceed the original investment. So here's an example.

My new 15000 tractor has 5 years of claim protection again righteous issues. No co pays no hanging charges and for 287.00 total during the same 5 years I also have damage insurance for hail flood fire theft overturn etc..

On a used purchase from day one you have unlimited risk up to the original cost. So 2 years goes by with no problems and then the engine or transmisdion goes. Lets say that number you mentioned of 3000.00 comes into play. So now 2 yesrs in you have 13000 invested and something else happens. At this point you have to fix it . . So thats a cheap one . . Only 1500.00. Investment up to14500.00. So now the front axle breaks. And 2000.00 isn't an option because you already have 14500 invested. And then floods happen like south carolina or california had recently and your property insurance doesn't cover flooding.

Point is . . My 15000 tractor would have been covered for all that and more and yours isn't.

My point is that used equipment carries a financial risk that you don't want to admit. To say it won't happen is illogical. Point is if both our tractors are lost to flooding after other repairs . . Only one of us gets compensated for it . . mine.

I've owned lots of used equipment . . But my 20 year tractor will start out its first 5 years with me breaking it in instead of someone else . . and Massey keeping its guarantees and Agco insurance covering catastrophies and theft etc..

But you are good at debate.

I love a good debate... but unfortunately the better half doesn't appreciate the art of argument. So, keep it going and I will live vicariously here. This is where I miss my father. He taught me to argue... but to back it up logically and keep the emotion passionate but not vicious. So far I am leaning toward Axle here but I do appreciate Glade's view.

If it is your first tractor and you are not handy then the new and under warranty purchase makes a lot of sense. For those who have experience and an appreciation for used value and cost of repair, then a hunt for a used purchase can be a bargain for them, but not necessarily all.

 

[AxleHub]

I love a good debate... but unfortunately the better half doesn't appreciate the art of argument. So, keep it going and I will live vicariously here. This is where I miss my father. He taught me to argue... but to back it up logically and keep the emotion passionate but not vicious. So far I am leaning toward Axle here but I do appreciate Glade's view.

If it is your first tractor and you are not handy then the new and under warranty purchase makes a lot of sense. For those who have experience and an appreciation for used value and cost of repair, then a hunt for a used purchase can be a bargain for them, but not necessarily all.

Greetings dragon. You wete right on most counts except the following:

"If it is your first tractor and you are not handy then the new and under warranty purchase makes a lot of sense."

It is my first diesel tractor . . . however most would say my diagnostic and tool skills are "quite seasoned".

As an example I've owned 3 motorcycles in my life all new and all broken in by myself in a very methodical way. As a result of that break in process I have always gotten exceptional gas mileage and no major repairs on them of my trucks, vans, and cars (those that I purchased new). My true perspective is kids, animals, and machines all benefit from being brought up personally from the beginning. If they aren't . . it requires more efgort and work down the road. Lol

P.s. debate is a healthy mental process. It can challenge the viewpoints and stretch to accomodate logic. AND in my case . . by the time I was ready to invest in a tractor my wife WANTED me to get one. Lol

 

[Ooklaa]

We shall see what happens. I have been working eith my hands from i was 5 years old. From computers, to turbine rc helicopters, to fixing pretty much everything in a house. My skills as a mechanic are limited to bolt on products never tried anything more in depth. Brakes, exhaust, oil changes, turbos and superchargers replacemmets. Never opened a engine up.

This is a good questions. When is the best time to buy? Meaning rebates, incentives etc. is summer better then winter?

 

[tman1020]

Good points on both sides here. Gladehound that sure is a nice upgrade from the 1914.

 

[AxleHub]

I would assume the machine would not be covered under your homeowners policy unless you specifically added a rider for it. As mentioned, if financing, insurance will be required by the lender. But in general, having it insured is a good idea in case it were stolen, or your garage burns down with the tractor inside, or whatever. If you want it on your homeowners policy, check to see if you need a rider, and check to see where/when its covered.

Spot on Fiziks. Homeowners insurance typically doesn't cover tractors for flooding, wind, hurricane/tornado or earthquake. Also hail and wildfires are high deductible. Also overturn is typically not covered or ANY off premise consideration.

A rider added to homeowners will cover overturns and is usuallt required if you don't take bank insurance or manufacturer indrance on financing.

Other choices are like KTac from kubota.

A really special policy is from AGCO . . It is both the cheapest damage insurance option yet it covers almost everything except" off premise".

 

[gladehound]

Good evening AxleHub,

Not trying to debate. And trying very hard not to offend anyone (although I often fail in the later category). I'm just sharing my point of view to give the OP another perspective to consider.

It's certainly not impossible for all the things you listed to go wrong. But it is so improbable that it's not worth putting out there as a hypothetical example. My property hasn't flooded since Noah stepped off the arc!

Let's take a real example. My Kioti LB1914 vs your Massey GC1715. I paid $8200 for a 2 year old CUT that weighs twice what your SCUT weighs. Because of that weight and structural strength, it could do things your SCUT can't. I kept mine 9 years. I had one failure which was my fault and cost $50 to fix, and surprisingly, no floods. I eventually sold it for $7000. My cost was $1250 to own the tractor for 9 years. You paid $15000, almost twice as much for your Massey. What could you sell it for used after 9 years? I'm guessing less than $13,750. This is the risk I speak of with buying new. It is the risk of rapid depreciation because it is no longer new. This is a point you missed in your response.

Was I lucky with my first used tractor experience? Maybe but let's see... My extended family has owned 4 JD's, 2 Satoh's, and 2 Kioti's. None of these tractors has ever had any problems that cost more than a few hundred dollars except for the JD 4300 which would break in half every 1000 hours. That would cost $3000 each time it happened. But that tractor was used almost exclusively for backhoe work and probably wasn't built for that volume of backhoe work. Regardless, even though it was bought new, it was out of warrantee anyway. So out of 8 tractors, none had work that would have been covered by warrantee if they were bought new. Has your Massey had any warrantee work done and if so how much would the same work have cost you out of pocket?

Then if I look at all the cars and trucks I've bought, the extended warrantee just wouldn't pay off for any of them. Some of them had problems, just not enough problems to offset the cost of an extended warrantee (and yes I bought two extended warrantees before having the courage to strike out on my own into the world of risk!).

Maybe, if a person is unlucky, they could have a bad financial experience with one machine (tractor, car, truck). The dreaded lemon! But if that person makes a lifetime of decisions to purchase machines after the initial depreciation (that you get when you walk off the lot) was already absorbed by someone else, the savings will more than make up for that one bad experience.

So no, I am not trying to debate you. I am trying to enlighten anyone who will listen that the risk of depreciation when buying "new" is greater than the risk of costly failures + depreciation when buying "used". This can be proven by comparing actual average costs buying new versus used. The best money managers I know never buy anything new.

There is a sweet spot that is often a good place to shop and that is demos and leftovers. Often one can get steep discounts and still get a new tractor warrantee on a machine that is already several years old.

Finally, I'm not saying that anyone's decisions are wrong. There are reasons that we make decisions that go beyond finances. I'm simply pointing out the financial advantage of buying used.

 

[gladehound]

Gladehound that sure is a nice upgrade from the 1914.

Thanks, really enjoying it.

 

[TomSeller]

There is a sweet spot that is often a good place to shop and that is demos and leftovers. .

Yep, I buy almost everything used except underwear and food. Those I buy new.

 

[4570Man]

Yep, I buy almost everything used except underwear and food. Those I buy new.

What about toilet paper?