O my, I am comfused

[dragoneggs]

Yep, I buy almost everything used except underwear and food. Those I buy new.

What about toilet paper?

Way to throw this discussion down the crapper :laughing:

 

[PhysAssist]

en

:thumbsup: rusty. Nice pictures.

As to my questions about the inventory. Im pretty sure from a manufacturing point of view, if dealers are still sitting on 2014, 2015 models and its 2016. Their not gonna get any 2016 models. No matter if it says 0 hrs or not.

Its all about being patient. Thats my opinion i may be wrong.

Sois their something out their for 15,000 grand, loader, mower deck?

Hi Ookla,

We lurked here for a couple of years before buying our Kubota B2320 new in 2015. We got it with FEL, 60" mid-mount mower, and a ballast box all for pretty much the $15K you are lookin at.

We have a total of 8.1 acres between Rochester and Buffalo NY, but only a couple of those are mowed, the rest are woods and swamp.

We use our B2320 as you have said you would be using yours'- mowing, grading, driveway repair (gravel), log/firewood processing and transporting into the house, and so many more thing I could not have begun to imagine before we got our Kubota.

As far as warranties, we are still in our standard Kubota 5-year warranty, and because we financed it on their 0% financing, (nothing better then buying something so useful with someone else's money) we also have their tractor protection plan, which covers anything that happens to it, even if I drop it in our pond, with just a $250.00 deductible.

BTW, I NEVER, repeat NEVER!!!! buy (fall for) buyer protection plans or extended warranties, but this one, I did immediately (after reading it over twice to look for exclusions and loopholes and finding NONE.)

We looked at the similar sized JD, NH, Mahindra, and IH tractor around, and could not find anything better near the price and with similar benefits.

The BX's are also awesome machines, but we have a really uneven and rocky property (where it's not swamp) and we needed a little more ground clearance than the BX would have given us.

Good luck, and be sure to post pictures of your new toy when you get it.

Thomas

 

[TomSeller]

What about toilet paper?

No need to buy any. Store up leaves every fall. The only problem is when them city folk stop by to visit and use more than they need to and we have to ration.

 

[AxleHub]

Good evening AxleHub,

Not trying to debate. And trying very hard not to offend anyone (although I often fail in the later category). I'm just sharing my point of view to give the OP another perspective to consider.

It's certainly not impossible for all the things you listed to go wrong. But it is so improbable that it's not worth putting out there as a hypothetical example. My property hasn't flooded since Noah stepped off the arc!

Let's take a real example. My Kioti LB1914 vs your Massey GC1715. I paid $8200 for a 2 year old CUT that weighs twice what your SCUT weighs. Because of that weight and structural strength, it could do things your SCUT can't.

I kept mine 9 years. I had one failure which was my fault and cost $50 to fix, and surprisingly, no floods. I eventually sold it for $7000. My cost was $1250 to own the tractor for 9 years. You paid $15000, almost twice as much for your Massey. What could you sell it for used after 9 years? I'm guessing less than $13,750. This is the risk I speak of with buying new. It is the risk of rapid depreciation because it is no longer new. This is a point you missed in your response.


So no, I am not trying to debate you. I am trying to enlighten anyone who will listen that the risk of depreciation when buying "new" is greater than the risk of costly failures + depreciation when buying "used".

Greetings Gladehound,

Despite the "aw shucks" styling . . you are a good debater and have a clever way of trying to use math to your advantage . . . congrats. But I also am presenting a viewpoint both for educational and motivational purposes.

1. So lets start with this: You claimed my example was too hypothetical. But guess what . . other than the "flood" part which I thru in to highlight the importance of insuranceo . . my "example" was real for someone. In fact without mentioning names or brands . . I know of 4 different tractor owners right now (from TBN) that are working with attorneys regarding catastrophic tractor failure claims. And their only weapon in the fight toward victory is the tractors were within warranty periods. And half of those 4 are scuts and half are compacts. Thats real life . . not hypothetical. The fact you think it is so unlikely . . tells me something too.

2. You are quite clever with math as you use past values on your unit but current values on my side . . in other words "apples and oranges". You bought your kiotti quite some time ago and then sold it rather recently . . So you must work for the political or social security parts of our government and claim there is no inflation . . yet your kiotti greatly benefitted from tractor inflation . . but then on mine there "won't be any" lol. You're fun Glade. and you aren't afraid to trya little "razzle dazzle" play here and there. But 10.5 years from now in an " in demand segment" like scuts . . .will my tractor be worth 13,750 ???? Judging by current inflation and having been watching scuts since 2006 personally I know exactly what a BX or SC2400 sold for in 2006 and they would both have been A PROFIT on a used sale today (not a $1200 loss) as in your Kiotti example.

3. And then therewss that mention of yours about your kiotti being able to do things my Massey couldn't . . again a clever statement on your part. You're absolutely right . . that big lumbering behemoth could do a lot of things in one trip that mine would need 2 or 3 trips to accomplish. But you accidently forgot to mention my Massey can do several things your kiotti could never do no matter how many trips it took

My point for readers . . is you are cleverly presenting a single side and hoping I don't know both sides. In buying something . . all too often buyers are only prepared for one side. Now the OP has expressed continous "price pounding" as his focus. Sadly that can make a buyer frustrated and create enemies of dealers. It becomes a game where domeone has to win and someone has to lose. The OP might be a nice guy . . but all his energy to this point is on cheap price rather than getting "full value". He hasn't set his butt in 20 seats to recognize what is what. And while price is of economic importance . . so also is the "mating" of a machine with a person and understanding value is not just a cheap price competition.

On the idea of depreciation . . I'm fully in agreement with you Glade . . I'd never buy a Cadillac that wasn't 2.5 to 3 years old because its a 50% swing from msrp.

But I'm about appreciation . . Not depreciation. My 15000 number includes sales tax and insurance and the new style loader and unique mulching deck and 3pt. hitch and loaded tires and 25 hp tractor with brush guard and delivery and its tier 4 rated. And I know why each of those things is important. I've sat in many seats and seen many dealers lots and email addresses. And I expect 10 years from now my new shiny Massey will be less shiny but of equal or greater worth . . . every penny of that or more.

AxleHub

 

[PhysAssist]

Whatever is pumping the hydraulic fluid into the ram on the splitter. On a gasoline powered wood splitter it is attached to the crankshaft of the gas engine. Other applications being discussed here include using the built in hydraulic pump on a tractor or adding a pump that fits onto the PTO of the tractor.

If using a PTO pump a tank of some sort is still needed

Basically, you would need to fabricate a way to run a PTO-driven hydaulic pump, plumbed to a reservoir and then to your splitter and the PTO pump would set you back about $500 new, the hydraulic tank another $200 approx, and then whatever high pressure hydraulic hose is going for, PLUS the cost of the splitter itself. Vs about $1500-1800 for a ready to run warrantied splitter with all the parts and pieces specked to fit and run together by a manufacturer who has to answer to the govt if it blows up on you.

 

[gladehound]

Axlehub,

Just two points:

1. If you only know of 4 catastrophic failures out of the many people on TBN, that indicates they are extremely rare just as I previously indicated.
2. Time will tell how much you can eventually sell your SCUT for. Right now you're just speculating. Let me know after it happens.

I'm glad you are presenting your viewpoint. It creates for a balance of opinions on TBN. Everyone is different in what they value.

 

[gladehound]

As for depreciation of MF SCUTs, the 12 year old SCUT in the add is advertised at ~50% of the new MSRP for this same package. I would expect the actual selling price to be about half of what a well negotiated purchase of this tractor new would have cost. There is no basis to believe you can buy a new tractor and get as much or more for it at sale.

http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9364727

 

[bspeedy]

Gladehound - please post a picture of yourself. I think you and I are long lost brothers...

I continue to be amazed at friends and colleagues who buy new and have little versus those who buy second hand and could easily afford the new.

Just another point to add to Glade's two points: The four incidents of major problems are being handled under warrantee. That supports the 'buy used' argument, in my opinion. I firmly believe that a tractor that has reached 500 hours without a major problem will likely get to 5000 hours with proper care. A brand new (unproven) machine is a crap shoot.

I run my finances by this belief and have been (mostly) proven true. In the interest of dicslosure - I just had a major transmission repair in my second hand pickup to the tune of $2K, but I am still WAY ahead of the curve over my lifetime. And I bought the truck at a price that allowed for some extra spending. Still worth more than I paid plus cost of repairs.

 

[AxleHub]

As for depreciation of MF SCUTs, the 12 year old SCUT in the add is advertised at ~50% of the new MSRP for this same package. I would expect the actual selling price to be about half of what a well negotiated purchase of this tractor new would have cost. There is no basis to believe you can buy a new tractor and get as much or more

Lol . . see Glade . . both of us are capable of some razzle dazzle with math lol

Actually I was waiting to see if you'd pick up on the imbalance of you buying used and the reduced price and then the resale value versus my example from new price to resale value. You didn't catch that but you did catch an impact of it. Actually I had never ever seen a Massey GC before the 2013 gc1700 series. But I can tell you that back in 2006 an sc2400 new would run negotiated price of about 9850.00 plus tax with loader and mower deck and bx2350 was similar.

 

[AxleHub]

Just another point to add to Glade's two points: The four incidents of major problems are being handled under warrantee. That supports the 'buy used' argument, in my opinion. I firmly believe that a tractor that has reached 500 hours without a major problem will likely get to 5000 hours with proper care. A brand new (unproven) machine is a crap shoot.

Bspeedy . . Your theory is reasonable except for one important thing . . length of warranty. Glades example was 2 ywars old and had no warranty . . my Massey gc1700 has 5 years of warranty. In my 4 examples I know of 3 of the 4 happened after 2 years and are still covered.

In addition . . the market has lots of used older bigger tractors 40 hp and larger) but few used good updated scuts. The market demand is in scuts and small compacts (35 hp and smaller). Ask any dealer. Someday scuts will catch up with demand . . but not today. Why would I buy a 3 year old used scut for 12500 or 13000 when I can get new with my option choices for 14200 and cheap financing?