gladehound
Veteran Member
I don't care how good the food is... if there isn't enough of it, I'm still hungry!
O my, I am comfused
- Thread starter Ooklaa
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I don't care how good the food is... if there isn't enough of it, I'm still hungry!
AxleHub
Elite Member
True. But too big an appetite makes for too big to move . . just like with tractors
Somethings just make more sense then others. Like for example, wont say name brand of attachments or machine. Just using this for price exampleS, a backhoe and a loader are roughly 3/4 the price of a actual machine.
Thats like me saying cheese and the bun are 3/4 the price of a hamburger.
Dont wanna compare the 2 business but like i said some things just make more sense then others. Like when you look at something and just say their is no way this thing cost that much.
Anyways its also not my place to devalue something that others say is worth more. As i am a rookie in this field. For me all i can say it just doesnt make sense. Like paying a lot of money for food but still being hungry in the end.
Im going to look at john deere 1025r and mahindra max 24 on Thursday morning. Also the dealers are using the 0 percent financing as bait. One said to me cash price is this vs 0 percemt as that. Lol i was like out of 100 people how mnay are paying cash? Cash is king and i know this, but i really doubt a farmer or a home owner is gonna give 20,000 cash for a sub compact tractor..
Also just wanna say sorry as in a post before i used incorrect language and was unaware of the rules. Won't happen again. Its just the spartan in me sometimes comes out.
Niko
Thats like me saying cheese and the bun are 3/4 the price of a hamburger.
Dont wanna compare the 2 business but like i said some things just make more sense then others. Like when you look at something and just say their is no way this thing cost that much.
Anyways its also not my place to devalue something that others say is worth more. As i am a rookie in this field. For me all i can say it just doesnt make sense. Like paying a lot of money for food but still being hungry in the end.
Im going to look at john deere 1025r and mahindra max 24 on Thursday morning. Also the dealers are using the 0 percent financing as bait. One said to me cash price is this vs 0 percemt as that. Lol i was like out of 100 people how mnay are paying cash? Cash is king and i know this, but i really doubt a farmer or a home owner is gonna give 20,000 cash for a sub compact tractor..
Also just wanna say sorry as in a post before i used incorrect language and was unaware of the rules. Won't happen again. Its just the spartan in me sometimes comes out.
Niko
s219
Super Member
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2011
- Messages
- 8,548
- Location
- Virginia USA
- Tractor
- Kubota L3200, Deere X380, Kubota RTV-X
Sounds like maybe you just have different expectations. With tractors, stuff like front loader and especially backhoe are big $$ and will make up a large portion of the cost of a new machine. They are complex with hydraulics, structures, valves, hoses, etc. That stuff adds up, and it's just reality. On a basic tractor purchase, you might spend another $2000-10000 in implements, and that's the way it goes if you want to do stuff with the tractor.
The tractor itself is just the starting point, basically a chassis with engine and hydraulics. By itself it is of almost no use. It's the implements and attachments that make it useful. So don't get hung up on the price of the tractor versus implements and attachments -- in reality, the tractor is just a portion of the total package in terms of cost and function.
These are not knee-jerk impulse buys -- generally you have to have some serious jobs lined up to justify the purchase, in which case the cost will be acceptable. I know when I was shopping for tractors, both times the cost was easily acceptable because I knew how much work I would do with the machines. And looking back, I can say both tractor purchases I made were well worth it, both in the work they enabled me to do and in the amount of backbreaking labor saved. Think about how much you value your time, and saving a few hours here and there every week can easily cover the cost of a tractor in a year. I have gotten to the age where any savings of time/labor easily justifies the cost of equipment and tools.
As far as cash/finance, I suspect it's about 50/50 based on what I have read here over the years. I paid cash both times because it resulted in a bigger discount off the price of the machine. The 0% seems appealing, but it does not come free -- you are paying more for the tractor up front. And on most tractors, if you do finance, you will be required to buy insurance, so figure another $200-300 per year or so. For a new buyer, I think insurance is important either way. The forum is littered with posts from first time tractor owners who do some stupid stuff with their machines and break them. That's also not cheap.
BTW, in case it hasn't been mentioned, tractors are dangerous in many different ways. You have to be focused and careful when using them, and learn as much as you can from the practical know-how of others. Even experienced operators get into trouble from time to time. So when shopping and looking at pricing, remember not to cut corners and have a healthy respect for these machines. They can be your best friend but they can also kill or injure you very easily.
The tractor itself is just the starting point, basically a chassis with engine and hydraulics. By itself it is of almost no use. It's the implements and attachments that make it useful. So don't get hung up on the price of the tractor versus implements and attachments -- in reality, the tractor is just a portion of the total package in terms of cost and function.
These are not knee-jerk impulse buys -- generally you have to have some serious jobs lined up to justify the purchase, in which case the cost will be acceptable. I know when I was shopping for tractors, both times the cost was easily acceptable because I knew how much work I would do with the machines. And looking back, I can say both tractor purchases I made were well worth it, both in the work they enabled me to do and in the amount of backbreaking labor saved. Think about how much you value your time, and saving a few hours here and there every week can easily cover the cost of a tractor in a year. I have gotten to the age where any savings of time/labor easily justifies the cost of equipment and tools.
As far as cash/finance, I suspect it's about 50/50 based on what I have read here over the years. I paid cash both times because it resulted in a bigger discount off the price of the machine. The 0% seems appealing, but it does not come free -- you are paying more for the tractor up front. And on most tractors, if you do finance, you will be required to buy insurance, so figure another $200-300 per year or so. For a new buyer, I think insurance is important either way. The forum is littered with posts from first time tractor owners who do some stupid stuff with their machines and break them. That's also not cheap.
BTW, in case it hasn't been mentioned, tractors are dangerous in many different ways. You have to be focused and careful when using them, and learn as much as you can from the practical know-how of others. Even experienced operators get into trouble from time to time. So when shopping and looking at pricing, remember not to cut corners and have a healthy respect for these machines. They can be your best friend but they can also kill or injure you very easily.
KennyG
Elite Member
On the 0 percent financing, ask a few more questions. Some of the financing deals are from the manufacturer and some require the dealer to contribute. It's only logical that the dealer will want to come out even. When I bought my John Deere it was 0% for three years, same price financed or cash. They also offered 5 years, 0% but the purchase price would be higher because the dealer had to finance the extra two years. It's worth asking if there is some loan duration that it really is free financing.
You might be surprised how many cash buyers are out there (mainly us old guys). I always have enough cash available to buy a car or truck or tractor. However, if they are really going to give me 0%, 1% or 2% financing, why not invest the money?
You might be surprised how many cash buyers are out there (mainly us old guys). I always have enough cash available to buy a car or truck or tractor. However, if they are really going to give me 0%, 1% or 2% financing, why not invest the money?
AxleHub
Elite Member
Niko . . your "rookie-ness" is showing. My massey gc1715 weights about 1600 pounds with mower deck and front loader. But half that weight is the mower and front end loader. If I had a backhoe the tractor would weigh more but the weight percentage of implements to tracter would be nearly 2/3rds. And the technology of hydraulics and steel types and connection hookups is just as expensive to design and create as the starter and frame and radiator or engine.
It appears you're assigning values to things arbitrarily. In a meal . . which costs the most to make . . The hamburger or the cheesecake desert?
gladehound
Veteran Member
I'm a home owner. I would never give 20,000 cash for a Sub compact tractor. Not because it is a lot of money, but because it's not much machine for the money.
I gave $8200 cash for my first tractor. It was a KiotiLB1914 with loader - 2 yrs old with 200 hours. 19hp and 2300 pound tractor 700 pound loader (small frame CUT, not SCUT). Filled rears = 3500 pounds total package. I did about 16,000 worth of work with it in 9 years and sold it for $7000 with ~600 hours.
I gave $20,600 cash (Tractor + loader + rear remote + tax ) for my second tractor I bought as a dealer left over / demo. Kioti DS4510HS. 45hp. 50 hours on it. As new warrantee.
I am a value buyer and I wont buy something if I don't have cash. If you need a SCUT size tractor, there are better values out there than a new $15,000+ whatever brand. People here bash gear. But look at what you can get for the money in a gear tractor! Because everyone has bought into HST, small slightly used gear tractors can be had for very little money an are a much better value.
AxleHub
Elite Member
Greetings Gladehound,
I sense its been a long time since your first time you had to do a repair on something. So you aren't intimidated by used equipment. Thats fine. But its also important to understand that there are a fair number of buyers who couldn't judge a used tractor's worthiness . . nor could they repair it themselves. Your "value buying" is based on your own skills and willingness to risk. And its unfair to compare a kioti used price to a Kubota new price. Its like comparing a chevy malibu to a mercedes glk350.
That doesn't mean kioti is a bad brand. But it does mean they carry a different value and resale value. In my travels in Wisconsin I've only ever seen 1 kioti dealer location but I've seen dozens and dozens of kubota dealers. 5 years sgo I wouldn't have bought a massey because there were only 2 scut massey dealers in a 75 mile radius. Today there are 14.
I also know if someone offered me a 45 hp used tractor for 1,000 dollars I'd buy it ONLY to sell it because I'd not be able to use it at all on my 2.75 acres due to slopes and purposes. Maybe your land accomodates a big tractor . . but the OP's land description doesn't appear to. And certainly his level of experience doesn't support the risks of buying used.
TJP89
Veteran Member
I think I said before, this is going to run you almost 20K. There isn't a tractor authority here that makes the prices for SCUTs. The reason the price is what it is, is because that's what people are willing to pay for a SCUT. If a SCUT costs 18K, its because there's enough people out there that value a SCUT at 18K. It's called market capitalism, just remember that the reason you're paying so much is because people value them that much.
I paid 22500 after financing for my CK35 HST w/ FEL (actually it will be a little less because I'll pay it off early). Yes it's a lot of money, I am paying off a tractor instead of a car for the next few years. BUT, it's easily worth it. Maybe not in terms of straight money, but in time and ease it is. Necessary tasks are much easier now, and I can do things I could never do before. I plan to keep the tractor for quite some time, and I suspect it will be working longer than me. It's a major investment, but has, IMO, already paid for itself, so everything else is a bonus now.
However, a backhoe would be nice, would cost me at least 6K, and is not worth the investment right now. I would use it every once in a while, and store it the rest of the time. I can make a cheaper ballast box thank you very much. That investment is not worth making. It's all a cost benefit thing. Run your numbers, and if you're not willing to pay the market price of a SCUT, then it is probably not the right time or best use of your money to buy one.
gladehound
Veteran Member
I'm intimidated by complexity and tractors continue to get more complex. My LB1914 was very simple. Manual fuel shut off, naturally aspirated diesel, gear tranny. I had little experience with fixing machines and still don't have much. I did break a steering arm. Ordered on line for $50. It arrived in 2 days and I installed it in 2 hours (probably 30 minutes for a shop to do).
Who is risking more, the person who pays $20,000 up front or the person who spends $10,000 knowing they may (or may not) need to have a shop split the tractor in the future and fix something to the tune of $3,000. In the end, the first person is guaranteed to be $20K down on cash flow. While the second person has a chance that they may spend more than $10,000. The first person's risk is guaranteed. They are also guaranteed to lose more in depreciation than the person who buys used. I guess I think of risk differently than you. Financially, buying new is much more risky than buying used.
When it's my money, I can compare whatever I want
But if you want to make an analogy, my first Kioti compared to a new Kubota SCUT is more like an old Jeep Wrangler compared to a new crossover. The old Jeep is heavier, stronger, simpler and cheaper to fix if something goes wrong and you can sell it anytime you want for near what you paid. The new crossover is more comfortable and convenient but has much higher initial price and much more depreciation and still can't do everything the Jeep can do.