Loader Odd squeak from front (axle?) with a full bucket of gravel - kubota 3400 - problem?

[k0ua]

I bought this rig in December and haven't found a use for the bucket/forks yet. Experienced I am not.

This may sound dumb, but if you want some experience buy 16 tons of 0 to 3/4 gravel/rock and have it delivered somewhere you can play with the tractor FEL. practice mounding it up and spreading it out and mounding it up again. Burn up a couple of tanks of fuel, and you will be a heck of a lot better at FEL work. I know this may sound dull and boring or a waste of fuel, but like anything else if you want to become skillful at using an FEL you have to practice using it. The more you practice (and keep up that practice by using your skill as often as possible) the better you will become. Learning how to properly operate a FEL is a very useful skill to have.

 

[aarobyn]

I just verified that nothing was loose. I couldn't find where I put the socket extension bar that fit my torque wrench. Then I need to find where the manual to get the recommended torque!

 

[aarobyn]

I have 30 tons of pea gravel (minus 6-7 buckets). You can come practice here. I'll show you right where to put it

 

[SPYDERLK]

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...oday-weight-day.html?highlight=ballast+weight

Ask, and ye shall recieve. In that thread, adding 870 lbs on the 3pt, took 610 lbs off of the front axle.

There are times in tractor-loader use where the load lifts virtually all weight from the rears and you cant steer. This will esp happen backing up a small incline. Realize that this means the entire tractor, counterweight, and load, bear on the fronts.
,,,A tractor equipped with a front axle unable to sustain this is not suitable as a loader tractor.

 

[the old grind]

I'm looking at 3PH pallet forks to add a platform & barrel of water. Attaching the weight as far back as conveniently possible will maximize front end 'lift' for the total amt of weight added. (shifting CG/o'all wt more toward the rears) I've done most FEL work with the CUT leaving the box blade on the 3PH by default. For the UT's much bigger/stronger FEL I'm using the 7' disc as it's heavier & sticks out farther, thus the planned addition. (man, the stuff I've crunched with that big thing hanging far & wide back there)

Were the tire a radial I'd have checked it for belt/ply separation. (not sure how tho'..) If the pitch of the squeak didn't change with ground speed I might have looked elsewhere from the git (lugs.etc), but if the noise depended on load in the FEL ...?

Last time my front wheel studs were loose the tip-off was a 'rumble' with a loaded bucket. Seems the hub didn't center as securely (or as precisely) as auto/truck wheels would. As it 'clunked' around on the studs the holes got hogged out a bit before I caught on. :duh: No prob once I tightened 'em up, tho'. I've gotten a lot better about checking wheel & loader bolt tightness since then ...

 

[Fallon]

I'm looking at 3PH pallet forks to add a platform & barrel of water. Attaching the weight as far back as conveniently possible will maximize front end 'lift' for the total amt of weight added. (shifting CG/o'all wt more toward the rears) I've done most FEL work with the CUT leaving the box blade on the 3PH by default. For the UT's much bigger/stronger FEL I'm using the 7' disc as it's heavier & sticks out farther, thus the planned addition. (man, the stuff I've crunched with that big thing hanging far & wide back there)

Were the tire a radial I'd have checked it for belt/ply separation. (not sure how tho'..) If the pitch of the squeak didn't change with ground speed I might have looked elsewhere from the git (lugs.etc), but if the noise depended on load in the FEL ...?

Last time my front wheel studs were loose the tip-off was a 'rumble' with a loaded bucket. Seems the hub didn't center as securely (or as precisely) as auto/truck wheels would. As it 'clunked' around on the studs the holes got hogged out a bit before I caught on. :duh: No prob once I tightened 'em up, tho'. I've gotten a lot better about checking wheel & loader bolt tightness since then ...

Lots of ballast boxes around & even more posts on here about building various types. I'd recommend something more solid like dirt, rock or even concrete over water. Much less sloshing & leaking. Not like dirt is more expensive either. You can also put 3pt attachment points directly in the barrel (especially with concrete) & save a boat load. 3pt pallet forks aren't that cheap.

Personally I don't bother with a ballast box. I just use my box blade or the rotary cutter if its already on (better leverage, similar weight, but much more awkward).

 

[the old grind]

Thanks! (tho' not my thread) Sling some stuff (mills, lathes, grinders) and lift with boom pole, BH stinger, or FEL, but some are a bit too big, and o'head clearance is sometimes limited when moving them into/out of the heated shop thru' 6' 6" door height w/high 'step-over'. Thought I'd strap a barrel (poly w/lid) onto a pallet & also[/I] try that out for ballast (QA that way?). (No use AFAIK for forks on the FEL(s) or to lift more that a foot or so high around here. )

I got such a kick out of the member who concreted 4" or so PVC pipes into a ballast barrel as tool holders. Occasional water accumulation would be but a few secs away (wet-vac) from being remedied, or drain holes could be added by hammer drill.

Gotta go check lug torque on 12 wheels, as ground is thawing/drying and I'll be back in the seat(s) this week.
Did the OP find whether his f-wheel lugs are 'loose'?

 

[aarobyn]

"The Old Grind" - I'm the OP. Nothing was looking visibly loose on inspection, but I'm rectifying the inflation issue and torquing the lug nuts this afternoon just to be sure. Then I'll take it out and see if the issue is resolved.

 

[aarobyn]

Recommendations on front lug torque? I can't find my paper manual and my pdf version is conveniently corrupted. I googled around a bit and found someone with a smaller tractor going to 57-67 ft-lb. I set my torque wrench to 60, and wasn't able to move any nuts on the left side. On the right (squeaky) side, I was able to move 2 of the 6 between a 1/8 and 1/4 turn.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Recommendations on front lug torque? I can't find my paper manual and my pdf version is conveniently corrupted. I googled around a bit and found someone with a smaller tractor going to 57-67 ft-lb. I set my torque wrench to 60, and wasn't able to move any nuts on the left side. On the right (squeaky) side, I was able to move 2 of the 6 between a 1/8 and 1/4 turn.

Theres your problem. Thats quite a bit of turn for so lo torque. I just looked at our L2550. The lugs are bigger than 1/2". If they saw fit to use that size you have to expect a proportionate Torque. Go 90-100 Ft lbs.
larry

 

[aarobyn]

They are 22 mm nuts. So I'll try a higher ft-lb and see what happens.

 

[the old grind]

22mm heads, or threads? I'd guess close to 12 x 1.0 mm (maybe 14 x 1.25) or similar thread size on a long shot & torque in the 80-110 ft/lb or so. (110-140 for 14MM?)

Most manuals have 'general' torque tables if you can match up the thread size(s). I mentioned never having installed a nut or lug 'dry' in front of a neighbor (self-proclaimed as ASE certified .. 'not'). Soon as I said 'anti-seize or grease' he said "I wouldn't. The wheels would fall off."
(wooowww...)

btw, any broad torque chart I've seen that ever mentioned so specified 'lightly oiled bolt'. (Red grease is my fave for wheels.) Some suggested reducing torque by 10% if using anti-sieze, but I'd go fulll spec on that. .. Wouldn't want the wheels to fall off.

 

[SPYDERLK]

22mm heads, or threads? I'd guess close to 12 x 1.0 mm (maybe 14 x 1.25) or similar thread size on a long shot & torque in the 80-110 ft/lb or so. (110-140 for 14MM?)

Most manuals have 'general' torque tables if you can match up the thread size(s). I mentioned never having installed a nut or lug 'dry' in front of a neighbor (self-proclaimed as ASE certified .. 'not'). Soon as I said 'anti-seize or grease' he said "I wouldn't. The wheels would fall off."
(wooowww...)

btw, any broad torque chart I've seen that ever mentioned so specified 'lightly oiled bolt'. (Red grease is my fave for wheels.) Some suggested reducing torque by 10% if using anti-sieze, but I'd go fulll spec on that. .. Wouldn't want the wheels to fall off.

I would definitely not use antiseize. Maybe a little WD40. Then if youre worried about corrosion getting in spray each exposed lug end with Chain Wax.
larry

 

[aarobyn]

It's a 22mm socket - so the OD of the nut, not the thread.

I tightened them to 95 ft-lb, which is where I was able to get 2 nuts on the left wheel to tighten ever so slightly so it has to be close to right.

I finally got a chance to try another load of gravel with it (right side lugs tightened, loader joints freshly greased, tires at better inflation) and I still get a squeak. This time it doesn't sound quite as correlated to a single revolution of the tire (but roughly so), and it's higher pitched (at least that's how it seems to me). My wife says that it sounded like a bird chirp, and more like a rubber on rubber squeak.

There's definitely a tire issue in play - It lost several pounds of pressure in the right front in just the 48 hours since I aired it up.

I also got it to squeak a couple times without a load in the bucket when I went over some rocks with the right tire that bounced things a bit.

Next step (after we dry out a bit from tomorrow's predicted rain) is to check the axle oil levels as was suggested early on.

 

[SPYDERLK]

It's a 22mm socket - so the OD of the nut, not the thread.

I tightened them to 95 ft-lb, which is where I was able to get 2 nuts on the left wheel to tighten ever so slightly so it has to be close to right.

I finally got a chance to try another load of gravel with it (right side lugs tightened, loader joints freshly greased, tires at better inflation) and I still get a squeak. This time it doesn't sound quite as correlated to a single revolution of the tire (but roughly so), and it's higher pitched (at least that's how it seems to me). My wife says that it sounded like a bird chirp, and more like a rubber on rubber squeak.

There's definitely a tire issue in play - It lost several pounds of pressure in the right front in just the 48 hours since I aired it up.

I also got it to squeak a couple times without a load in the bucket when I went over some rocks with the right tire that bounced things a bit.

Next step (after we dry out a bit from tomorrow's predicted rain) is to check the axle oil levels as was suggested early on.

... also inspect for a crack or broken spot weld on the rim web or the web to rim transition.

 

[Gordon Gould]

I have a front end squeak in my L3010. It drove me nuts trying to figure out what it was. It would come and go but mostly only appeared when I was in high range. (gear transmission) It only appeared while moving forward. I went through all the stuff you are, trying to find it or eliminate things. It sounded like a bad water pump chirp on a 1962 Ford p/u truck and often seemed to be synced with wheel rotation. After a year of worry and intermittent searching I finally figured out that the removable engine cowls on both sides squeak when I am in high range. The left louder than the right. I have no idea why the perfect vibration has any thing to do with high range except I am going faster.

gg

 

[aarobyn]

I have a front end squeak in my L3010. It drove me nuts trying to figure out what it was. It would come and go but mostly only appeared when I was in high range. (gear transmission) It only appeared while moving forward. I went through all the stuff you are, trying to find it or eliminate things. It sounded like a bad water pump chirp on a 1962 Ford p/u truck and often seemed to be synced with wheel rotation. After a year of worry and intermittent searching I finally figured out that the removable engine cowls on both sides squeak when I am in high range. The left louder than the right. I have no idea why the perfect vibration has any thing to do with high range except I am going faster.

gg

I'll have to check that out. Thanks for sharing!

 

[aarobyn]

Update -

The front right tire was consistently losing air, especially while driving the tractor. The squeaking seemed worse when under full inflation, so I wondered if it was forcing air out in an odd way somewhere/somehow. I eventually tried sliming it as I couldn't find an obvious puncture/leak to fix. And it still has a slow (but slower) leak, and it still squeaked after sliming.

Then I moved on to one of the first suggestions and I checked the front axle oil. That was way too low, so I topped it off and took a trip to the gravel pile. Still squeaking, but maybe not as bad as before? That's hard to say for sure because everything I've tried seems to alter the frequency and pitch just a wee bit.

Next stop - checking in on the rear axle.

 

[whis]

how much oil did you put in and why wait this long to check it

 

[aarobyn]

Nearly 2 quarts. I had just been been checking the "easy" stuff first. And procrastinating. And the squeak still sounds more "rubbery" than "metallic".

The hydraulic level looks fine - is there really a chance that the problem is in the back?

Or should I just completely drain and refill the front axle? Just in case?