Offered another unusual project

[kenhar]

We have a pond that never overflows but does drop own a couple of feet in summer. I wanted to get more water in it so I graded a shallow ditch across the hillside above it to collect water coming down the hill and direct it to the pond. It helped some in winter (heavy rains) but still not much in summer. Assuming it is springfed, I have to wonder if addng more water causes the spring to drain the extra water out?

Ken

A spring is a water coming out of the ground. A water source if you will. I have 3 ponds on my farm, 2 of which have a spring in them. The water level fluctuates with the season in all 3. One I built has a spring. When we dug it, water started oozing out of the ground before we finished and had to stop because it got too wet. The other, I swam in as a kid and would feel cold streams in one area. That was the spring water at 57 degrees while the rest of the pond was warmer because of the summer heat. We have several small creeks, we call branches, that have springs. There will be a constant hole of water there when the creeks stops running in the summer. There are "wet weather" springs that run in the spring and early summer when the water table is higher than in the middle of summer. Springs can be very delicate in nature and messing with them can stop the flow even with your best intentions. Bottomline, a spring is a water supply, not a drain.

 

[Ken45101]

Bottomline, a spring is a water supply, not a drain.

What happens when the water level at the spring outlet gets higher than the source? Or at least higher than some alternative outlet?

 

[2manyrocks]

I was told that a spring will find an alternative outlet if the one it has gets blocked.

 

[HawkinsHollow]

I think the roof could have a substantial impact to the pond level. I read somewhere recently that 1" of rain on 1000 sqft of roof will yield 623 gallons. Not sure where you are in PA but using 45" of annual rain that is 28,000 gallons of water. That roof is definitely bigger than 1000 sqft. Food for thought.

 

[kenhar]

What happens when the water level at the spring outlet gets higher than the source? Or at least higher than some alternative outlet?

What happens when the water level at the spring outlet gets higher than the source? Or at least higher than some alternative outlet?

If the spring is in the pond or higher than the spring that lets water run into the pond, the pond overflows as long as the spring or other sources of water continue to run into the pond. Similar to your bathroom sink. Most bathroom sinks have an overflow that is connected to the drain in case the water is accidently left on. The spring flowing is dependent on the pressure behind it. If the pressure is greater from an outside source, no flow. It's that simple. A spring in a pond that is 2' deep, the pressure on the spring is not as great as if the pond is10 feet deep. Remember the pressure exerted on the Titanic explorer?

 

[kenhar]

I was told that a spring will find an alternative outlet if the one it has gets blocked.

It totally depends on the strength of the spring. If it is just a trickle, it can stop up and not run anymore. If it is stronger than the obstruction, the pressure produced will make the water find another outlet. Read about the spring at Mammoth Spring, Arkansas. It is the source of the Spring River that flows year round.

 

[Hay Dude]

They have asked for an estimate to cut down all vegetation from the spring along the 300+/- feet of creek bed, and clearing the creek bed of all obstructions (making it run more gooder than it does now)

 

[Quaffer]

They have asked for an estimate to cut down all vegetation from the spring along the 300+/- feet of creek bed, and clearing the creek bed of all obstructions (making it run more gooder than it does now)

Obviously to improve flow and capture rate of water before it settles into the ground. But they should also have a plan for maintaining that vegetation otherwise it will grow back.

Couple of thoughts:

- someone should calculate the evapotranspiration rate for the pond. In other words, how much loss (in inches) does the pond lose on an annual basis due to evaporation and transpiration (leaking.) Sometimes there are local free services that will do that (County, university, etc.) Your input/supply has to exceed the evapotranspiration rate.

- can anyone say, based on the origination of the pond, whether the bottom is lined with bentonite or a similar material? My neighbor used his excavator to clean the bottom of his pond, and it ruined the integrity of his bentonite pond bottom. The pond quickly vanished as this was like pulling the stopper in a bathtub.

- you might consider piping, or "smart ditch" product, to ensure the water coming out of the spring actually makes it all the way to the pond. You can lose a lot of water due to settling in a ditch.

Looks like a fun project-- good luck!!

Water Management Solution | SmartDitch | Penda

SmartDitch® is a leak-free channel lining system engineered to control and direct the flow of water or critical fluids.

www.penda.com

 

[Topzide]

@Hay Dude, you might also look at this product, Perma-Zyme. Is a ground stabilizer that can be used for dirt roads/lanes, ponds, and any area that is soft, and you need to harden it up. It's not cheap, but it is environmentally friendly!

 

[Hay Dude]

It’s a go, gents.

Phase 1 gets underway next week.
We will cut all the vegetation out of the stream bed from the spring to the pond and remove loose material blocking the path of the water.

In addition, have also been asked to prepare gutter/downspout bids for the back roof panels along with an estimate to trench in PCV to connect the downspouts and run them to the pond should the spring not provide enough water.

Have to get phase 1 done before hay hits at the end of May.

 

[Streetcar]

@Hay Dude, you might also look at this product, Perma-Zyme. Is a ground stabilizer that can be used for dirt roads/lanes, ponds, and any area that is soft, and you need to harden it up. It's not cheap, but it is environmentally friendly!

Why would you need to stabilize soil for a pond/ spring problem

 

[Streetcar]

It’s a go, gents.

Phase 1 gets underway next week.
We will cut all the vegetation out of the stream bed from the spring to the pond and remove loose material blocking the path of the water.

In addition, have also been asked to prepare gutter/downspout bids for the back roof panels along with an estimate to trench in PCV to connect the downspouts and run them to the pond should the spring not provide enough water.

Have to get phase 1 done before hay hits at the end of May.

Do they want tree removed at pond?. Trees at pond are not a good match

 

[Hay Dude]

Do they want tree removed at pond?. Trees at pond are not a good match

Do you mean the Cypress tree on the “island”? We haven’t discussed removing it yet.

 

[2manyrocks]

Increasing the water level in the pond will make it more entertaining to remove the island tree later.

 

[Hay Dude]

I don’t think removing the Cypress was on the list for the owners. They like it.

 

[EddieWalker]

I went duck hunting along the Mississippi River on some private land that was flooded with cypress trees all over the place. The duck hunting was fantastic, and when I got home, I looked into buying and planting cypress trees along the edge of my pond. But with the Summer heat, and the evaporation that I already get, I decided not to plant trees that are as thirsty as they are.

 

[repete]

They have asked for an estimate to cut down all vegetation from the spring along the 300+/- feet of creek bed, and clearing the creek bed of all obstructions (making it run more gooder than it does now)

I can sure tell by this post you do not live in Washington State.....

 

[2manyrocks]

Tree roots and ponds are not a good combination, but I can see how they would be reluctant to cut the island tree. I would still recommend cutting the sycamore because the day will come when it is a big nuisance.

 

[Rustyiron]

I don’t think removing the Cypress was on the list for the owners. They like it.

I've only known that trees on the dam are a no no. Regular shoreline won't doesn't matter other than leaf and branches falling in the pond.

 

[Hay Dude]

The tree is in the shallow end and it’s been there 50 years, so it’s not likely to be a problem, although it cannot be ruled out.