OK...Deckover or Lowboy

[Farmwithjunk]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Wouldn't the key word be "commercial"? )</font>

I've had the law explained to me by the guys who INTERPRET and ENFORCE the law. The Vehicle Enforcement Officers. (Kentucky) Most states follow basically the same guidelines.

As was explained to me, here's how I understand the current laws.

Anything (except RV's) over 26,001LBS GVWR are considered commercial, no matter what, are subject to CDL.. Anything 10,001 Lb. GVWR and above USED AS A COMMERCIAL VEHICLE, require CDL. NON-COMMERCIAL truck/trailer combo's under 26,000 GVWR don't require CDL and associated formalities.

It was explained to me that the recent change to include 10,001 lb GVWR truck/trailer combo's was to cover the large number of lawncare operators, who ARE commercial, and fell through the cracks on compliance with DOT regs.

Yes, COMMERCIAL is the key.

 

[RayH]

All states fall under federal lCDL laws but they vary as far as requirements for DOT registration.

Straight from the KY CDL manual.

http://www.kentuckystatepolice.org/pdf/CDL%20Driver%20Manual.pdf

"Operators of vehicles described below MUST apply for a CDL.
Class A CDL
*Any combination of vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds
or more, provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is more than 10,000 pounds.
NOTE: The gross vehicle weight rating is the total of the empty weight of the vehicle, the load or
cargo weight capacity, and the passenger weight capacity. If the GVWR is not listed on a sticker,
located in the vehicle glove box or inside the driver side door, contact your vehicle’s manufacturer
for this information.
Class B CDL
*Any straight truck with two or more axles and a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more.
*Any vehicle with two or more axles and a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more, pulling a
vehicle with a GVWR of 10,000 pounds or less.
*A single vehicle designed to transport 16 or more passengers (including the driver) if the
GVWR is 26,001 pounds or more."

You can drive a 10001 lbs commercial vehicle without CDL but you need a DOT number and you must maintain a DOT physical.
Its a shame that the people that enforce this stuff cant seem to read or maybe theyre not communicating the difference between needing a DOT number and DOT physical card and having a CDL.

 

[RayH]

</font><font color="blueclass=small">( Wouldn't the key word be "commercial"? )</font>

Time for Texas.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/CDLhandbook.pdf



"Different Classes of Commercial Driver Licenses
There are three (3) basic types or classes of Commercial
Driver Licenses. They are described below. For further information,
refer to the diagram on page ix. This diagram helps
a person determine which class of license he/she needs and
which section(s) of the handbook to study.
CLASS A: Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination
weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more,
provided the gross vehicle weight rating of the
vehicle or vehicles towed exceeds 10,000
pounds;
CLASS B: Any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight
rating of 26,001 pounds or more, any one of
those vehicles towing a vehicle that does not
exceed 10,000 pounds gross vehicle weight rating,
and any vehicle designed to transport 24
passengers or more, including the driver; and a
Class B license will be restricted to operating
busses under 26,001 pounds GVWR if the skills
test is taken in a bus with a GVWR of less than
26,001 pounds; and
CLASS C: Any single vehicle or combination of vehicles
that is not a Class A or Class B if the vehicle is:
1) designed to transport 16 to 23 passengers
including the driver; or
2) used in the transportation of hazardous materials
that require the vehicle to be placarded
under 49 CFR, Part 172, Subpart F."

TX has different classes of noncommercial licenses to cover anything that isnt commercial but as you can see, their commercial regs remain the same as the rest of the country. Also, a commercial vehicle can be anything over 10000lbs, but a CDL isnt required to drive it unless its over 26000lbs.

 

[5030]

Ray:

We went from gooseneck trailers to Capitol Hill. Glad I am a farmer. Makes me exempt from most things except........

 

[RayH]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Ray:

We went from gooseneck trailers to Capitol Hill. Glad I am a farmer. Makes me exempt from most things except........ )</font>

I know, I appoligize. My frustration with this issue has bled over from other threads.
Its just that I feel like Im in the Twilight Zone or everyone has gotten together to play some kind of cruel joke on me.
It doesnt matter how many times the CDL laws are posted for all to see in black and white, somebody always comes up with " I heard this, someone told me this or someone inturpreted this.
I know everyone is getting sick of hearing an arrogant know it all (me) but I do truely know Im right about this and have proven it but my evidence has been ignored.

 

[Thorndike]

Ray; I'm in agreement with ya!!!! But I'll be the first to admit that I'm not an expert on everything known to man. Soemtimes ya just has ta ignore things. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[LarryRB]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
Its a shame that the people that enforce this stuff cant seem to read or maybe theyre not communicating the difference between needing a DOT number and DOT physical card and having a CDL. )</font>

I think the way to look at this is, each state comes up with it's own gimmicks to increase the state funds problems... Ct is no different in that they "interpret" differently than surrounding states other than New Yorkk. Your tax dollars at work, creating more tax dollars/./

 

[hunterridgefarm]

Well it looks like the deckover gets the most votes. I was pretty sure this was the way to go but the dealer had a lowboy on his lot and no deckover at the time I was there. So wanting to get one ASAP, my judgement was a little clouded.

Glad you guys set me straight. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

As far as the CDL's, every tractor dealership and trailer dealership has told me that 10,001# and you need CDL in NC.
I was planning on going by DMV today but someone gave me 75 pieces of 2-1/2 x 6" x 8' oak boards so I could not pass that up.

Framwithjunk, how hard is it to raise the hinged dovetail and does it cause any problem with implements attached? Do you have to keep the implement raised until you raise the dovetail or is your trailer long enough that this is not a problem?

I like the winch idea...I think that was from 5030.

I have been off from work for T-day vacation so haven't had much time to get on line.

Need to go back to work so I can rest /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Thanks for all the replys. I will go with the deckover, now I just need to decide on length...24' +.

 

[billfires]

Ray, it is the same in Mass, only need CDL if trailer is over 10000 lbs GVW and is being towed by a truck with GVW over 26000. Bill C

 

[JESSE1]

Here's what I use. Fleetneck 28' dovetail with 12,000# axles. The ramps are spring loaded and take a lot of weight off lifting them.

 

[QRTRHRS]

A couple of suggestions:
There are some manufacturers that advertise low profile deckovers. I don't know what the difference is but if your intended work involves a lot of climbing up on the deck it could be worth investigating.

I sold my beavertail. It was okay but my next trailer is going to be a tiltdeck.

A 14K trailer may weigh 4500-5000 lbs empty. Even properly licensed, that does not leave all that much capacity. While your asking about you are operators license, inquire about the trailer license. Here in PA, going from 10 up means registering in combination with your pickup truck. Check with your insurance companies. Most regular policies don't cover trailers of this size.

Commercial or private, DOT securement laws must be followed. Read up on those before you purchase hold down equipment.

Finally, you sometimes get what you pay for. Ask around and do your homework.

 

[wushaw]

Ray, CDL is standard across all 50 states. NON-CDL is not. In my home state you only pulled up CDL regs. The NON-CDL is the same weight classes but NON-CDL. I have a class A NON-CDL that is primary for hauling my house around but if I need to haul something heavy and it is not for commerce then I am legal to do so.
Also a farm trailer is a little different also with weight limits, like in my home state anybody that can tag a trailer with farm plates can go up too 20,000lbs and be legal with a class C NON-CDL liscense.
The only thing anybody can do is refer to their home state regs.

Texas handbook

 

[dieselmotorhead]

I ended up getting the deckover. My first iteration was to use my car trailer 7,000Lbs GVW. My 4600 only weighs 3550 from the factory- right-- Righhhht. Add the backhoe and the loader and the tag along trailer is a little squirrly (-5 sp), gestimated aroud 1500# over its limit. then I got a Bri- Mar dump gooseneck deck over dump trailer with ramps 16' by 96 inches with welded in D rings and rub rails on top of the neck to put the bucket on. Smooth paited steel dump body was a little iffy on traction and the loading angle was dangerous- almost went backward. Then I settled on an applachian trailer ( Ohio??). Not the top of the line as far as paint and attention to detail but good for what I need. It is 20' on the deck and 4 ft on dovetail. 14,000 GVW. Self cleaning dovetail section made of angle irons. Ramps made of angle iron. No spring assist to raise the dovetail halfs( yes it is heavy). But makes a flat deck. I got the "hay hauler" option it is a small deck over the neck of the trailer. Will not go back to anything with fenders for hauling the machine. I only use it to go between properties, back and forth to the dealer to get goodies added. And ocassionaly to move various "stuff" as a favor for those inlaws and other relatives that do not have trucks and trailers. Still have the other two trailers.

 

[QRTRHRS]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( No spring assist to raise the dovetail halfs( yes it is heavy). But makes a flat deck. )</font>That sounds more like a "beavertail". A dovetail is a fixed ramp style where as the beavertail is framed like a dovetail but has slightly narrower sections (usually two) that raise up to make a flat deck. Each deck section on the deckover that I used to have had a piece of steel channel that would slide out to the rear. The channel would act like a cantilever making it somewhat easier to lift the heavy deck sections. Perhaps you could fab up something to help you out.

 

[FaC]

HunterRidgeFarm,

I will toss in my $.02 on both sides of this thread.

As far as the trailer goes, I would go for the deckover. I have a lowboy and all of the comments on loading, hay, forklifts, etc are right on the money.

As far as the license goes, in NC you need to get a Class A NON-CDL license (I am in Kernersville). It plays out in three parts:

Non-commercial
Total combined gross below 26,001
Trailer GVWR 10,001 or above

In my case, my GN is a 14K GVWR - this is what pushes you to having to have the Class A NON-CDL. I have an 18K tag on the truck and I am not commercial. You have to take a short and easy written test and also take a driving test WITH the trailer. In my case, the driving test was both city and a little bit of interstate.

The license will list Class A instead of Class C but it is not a true CDL. I found all of this out after a friend of my FIL got a ticket for red fuel, overweight on the First in Flight tag and wrong operator's license all at the same time (it was well into 4 figures). I figured that it would be a lot cheaper to get legal ;-)

FWIW - Frank

 

[tlbuser]

What type of truck are you pulling with that requires 18K on the tags? 4K GVWR on the truck + 14K GVWR on the trailer?

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I'm tempted to say "most states", but I don't know it for gospel, you tag the truck for the combined weight of truck trailer, and cargo. I'm from Kentucky. I run 22,000 lb. tags on my truck. (We aren't even required to licence trailers. In fact we don't even TITLE trailers) The trailer is rated at 14,000 lbs. GVWR. Truck is a Dodge 2500. (GWVR escapes me at this moment. The long arm of the law will require you to stay UNDER the lowest weight rating. (Tags vs. vehicle(s) GVWR) My heaviest loads will see me scaling just under 18,500 lbs. I'm well under both tagged and rated vehicle load limits.

Kentucky does make a plate available to trailer owners. It requires the payment of a (small) property tax charge when renewed each year. I don't need it when I stay "in state", but it keeps me from looking suspicious when "out of state". (I tow into Indiana, Ohio, and Tennessee from time to time.)

 

[Trail_Time]

Hey diesel - Please Post a pic of your new trailer... I'd like to see the hay deck option.

thanks

 

[mbrule]

I can chime in from Mass, Truck and trailer need to be registered individually by weight. I register my 8600 lb GVW pickup for 9000 lb and my 7000 lb GVW trailer for 7000 lb. I am not sure about drivers licenses in Mass, but am pretty sure that a class D (lowest class) enables one to drive any vehicle or combination, with combined registered GVW of less than 26000 lbs. (except schoolbuses etc.)

Matt

 

[FaC]

North Carolina is the same as Kentucky. The trailer tag does not have any weight on it - all of the weight is on the truck tag.

This is one aspect that varies greatly state to state....

Frank