Opening up a spring with a track-hoe

[pacerron]

The rock is left over from my driveway paver project. I used it as the base and compacted it and then put sand on top of it, leveled/sloped it then tapped in/set the pavers and then used polymer sand to bind it all together. Well, the first 500, I still have 12,000 to lay after I finish the last 160' of curbing.

Kyle the water is flowing from all sides, I can't really pinpoint a specific spot. Is this how a spring flows?

It seems like the clay has fingers of sand running through it in it and the water is following through the sand fingers, straw size.

Don,
This will really sound like a dumb question/questions on my part, at this point of your project, but your latest pictures want me to ask if the top of your 5' ring that is now temporarily set is your intended full water level of the pond and if so, is that the spill over point of the pond at some point on the bank?
I keep wanting to reference the white plastic pipe with the blue cap shown in your pictures before digging to the hole you are preparing to dig but the pipe
hasn't been in any of your recent photos since the trac hoe was there.
I thought the place you are putting the culvert was basically below where the pipe used to be?
I realize the pit you are digging for the culvert stems from Jim saying something like.... too bad he didn't dig a 9 foot deep hole for a spring box.
It sounds like your answer and question about the water oozing out of the clay in straw sized sand holes ( to Kyle ), means the water is oozing out of the 6 foot sidewalls above and around the top of your 5' culvert piece.
If so, what are your plans to keep the sidewalls from eroding or plugging and
is the real purpose of the culvert then to act only as a mud/sludge catch basin for the seep that you intend to pump out from time to time? You must be going to dam off the culvert area from the pond so the seep can't go directly to the pond and have a pipe leaving the side of the culvert where the water has become clear of mud and sand to fill the pond?
But then you talked about letting the cows have access to the pond, which in a short time will make the bottom a muck hole again where they stand.
I guess I better just shut-up and be one of those lurkers that see what happens, rather than trying to help.
Ron

 

[txdon]

Pacerron, The PVC pipe in the first pics was a stand for a solar panel and was on the other side of the pond. It has been removed. The plan was just to clean the pond out with the track-hoe and be finished. But then Jim mentioned about a culvert and that started another realm of projects that seem to be mushrooming.

I bought a 30" culvert 6' long this morning that I will use. I will level the top of the 30" culvert so that it is above the spillway. The large culvert ring will be raised slightly and filled with gravel for a solid platform leading to the 30" culvert. There ares several other options available and I'm thinking of new ones daily. Monday when the digging starts I'll figure it all out.

Do I need to drill holes in the side of the 6' culvert on the bottom half and then put rock on the outside?

Keep your suggestions coming!:thumbsup:

 

[pacerron]

Do I need to drill holes in the side of the 6' culvert on the bottom half and then put rock on the outside?

Keep your suggestions coming!:thumbsup:

Don,
Thanks for the explanation. I combined 3 of your pics and think I've got it now. It looks like the field has always been draining to that area.
I can see a need for the holes and rock around the outside of the culvert on the bottom half if the 6' culvert will be somewhat above the present 5' ring grade, which it looks like it needs to be. In fact I think you should have rock fill between the culvert and the hill where the water is seeping out. Some folks like to shoot the holes in the culverts with a rifle for fun and saves a lot of drilling.
Jim probably has some ideas about placing the culvert and the holes.
I showed my wife the pictures, and being an old farm girl plus a practicing microbiologist for 40 years before retirement, she is having a fit about your stone.
We know you said it was gravel, but just to see what happens, please take
a cubic foot of it from your pile and put it in a tub. Cover it with 3-4 inches of water and stir the stone with a stick a few times every few hours. See if the water gets murky white. Let it set overnight and see what it looks like.
If you have a PH meter you might check it with that too.
I was going to sign off the site, but you said, keep coming. As one guy said,
"you better watch what you ask for."
Time for a nap!
Ron

 

[bindian]

Don,
Thanks for the explanation. I combined 3 of your pics and think I've got it now. It looks like the field has always been draining to that area.
I can see a need for the holes and rock around the outside of the culvert on the bottom half if the 6' culvert will be somewhat above the present 5' ring grade, which it looks like it needs to be. In fact I think you should have rock fill between the culvert and the hill where the water is seeping out. Some folks like to shoot the holes in the culverts with a rifle for fun and saves a lot of drilling.
Jim probably has some ideas about placing the culvert and the holes.
I showed my wife the pictures, and being an old farm girl plus a practicing microbiologist for 40 years before retirement, she is having a fit about your stone.
We know you said it was gravel, but just to see what happens, please take
a cubic foot of it from your pile and put it in a tub. Cover it with 3-4 inches of water and stir the stone with a stick a few times every few hours. See if the water gets murky white. Let it set overnight and see what it looks like.
If you have a PH meter you might check it with that too.
I was going to sign off the site, but you said, keep coming. As one guy said,
"you better watch what you ask for."
Time for a nap!
Ron

Ron,
What does the Mrs. think it is? Limestone?
hugs Brandi

 

[pacerron]

Ron,
What does the Mrs. think it is? Limestone?
hugs Brandi

Brandi,
Don said it was not limestone. The concern is primarily for the cows he has watering there.
If the pond is used for home or livestock drinking water, the use of minerals (alum, gypsum, limestone) is not recommended. The purity of the mineral substances is unknown, and its application to the pond could result in the inadvertent addition of undesirable substances.

Our pond has a clay base and was murky for 2 years until I put a roll of hay in it. It cleared up in a month.
Ron

 

[jinman]

Don, if I was looking for gravel that water would penetrate easily, I'd use pea gravel. That's what well drillers use up here around well casings before sealing the top with concrete. It should be available at materials places and in small quantities up to a yard at many landscapers. Of course, you aren't exactly surrounded by a metro area there in Lee County. You might check with a well driller to see if they have some they will sell you. For water penetration, I've never seen them use anything else, but that may not be the case where you are. I'd at least check to see if you could get some river rock type gravel or pea gravel. The pea gravel is round and individual pieces won't bind together with small amounts of clay like flat chips might.

Do I understand that you are putting a smaller culvert inside your larger one? I think that's a good idea. I also think if you had a trash pump, you might be able to pump water in between the culverts and wash out silt so that the inner culvert drops down as silt is removed. Did I mention that you'll probably get really dirty/muddy too?

When you get your culvert into final position, wait to see how high the water will rise inside it and then cut holes about 6" below the maximum static level. You might even get better flow by going 1' below. You just want to have the maximum flow while still having some amount of silt dam. That's my unscientific opinion. It will be the best tradeoff between flow and silt-in protection.

 

[bindian]

Brandi,
Don said it was not limestone. The concern is primarily for the cows he has watering there.
If the pond is used for home or livestock drinking water, the use of minerals (alum, gypsum, limestone) is not recommended. The purity of the mineral substances is unknown, and its application to the pond could result in the inadvertent addition of undesirable substances.

Our pond has a clay base and was murky for 2 years until I put a roll of hay in it. It cleared up in a month.
Ron

So that place that sales bales of barley straw online might not be selling snake oil? It really cleared it up that fast? How big is Y'alls pond? Was it just prairie hay or maybe coastal?
hugs, Brandi

 

[txdon]

Anything for the wives. The stone and water test is commencing. I used pool water with a known PH. I'll check the PH with a pool PH strip in the morning. The water is a murky white, but the washed stones have a grey-ish color. Temp 106.

Is this stone good or not for a percolating filter, it looks like it does have sharp edges?

 

[pacerron]

So that place that sales bales of barley straw online might not be selling snake oil? It really cleared it up that fast? How big is Y'alls pond? Was it just prairie hay or maybe coastal?
hugs, Brandi

Brandi,
Just Ohio grass hay a little clover and maybe timothy as well back then.
The hay grass you see growing around our pond in the pictures I have posted, probably in Texas Heat or Jim's Silt to pond post; I forget which at the moment. Our horses live the life of luxury with not much work so Alfalfa would be too hot for them; meaning they would have to be very limited in amount compared to grass.
The hay in the pond was something I had heard about but was really an accident when it happened. I discharged a roll from the baler on the hill above the pond and it took off rolling ending up in the pond.
Ron

 

[pacerron]

Anything for the wives. The stone and water test is commencing. I used pool water with a known PH. I'll check the PH with a pool PH strip in the morning. The water is a murky white, but the washed stones have a grey-ish color. Temp 106.

Is this stone good or not for a percolating filter, it looks like it does have sharp edges?

Don,
It might work since it has various sizes and shapes... but you can't beat river gravel or pea gravel as Jim mentioned since it is roundish and smooth and won't clog up or compress like sharp cornered stone.
You said you compacted the ramp for your hoe a little. Take a bucket of water and poor it gently onto the stone and see. If you poured it on river gravel or pea gravel ( at least the Ohio type ) it would run right through.
Call your county extension agent or a gravel company and ask them which is preferred.
Try some stones in a bucket of your clay laden water to see what it looks like
and then let it settle.
Easier than working in the heat!
BTW you did a great job showing how to remove your backhoe. I wish mine were that easy. If you haven't put it back on yet I'm sure the owners of like units would appreciate pictures of how you do it.
Ron