Opening up a spring with a track-hoe

[jimmyj]

I feel for you in this terrible draught. At least it looks like you are making some progress against it Don. I hope Texas gets some rain soon.

 

[Whitnel]

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I was interested in this post as I have a spring fed stream at the top of a nearby ridge. I seperates two ridges and has made a nice creek bed. The stream is fairly strong year round for about 100 yards. Then is slows, narrows, and literally disappears. The stream bed goes down the entire property, full of round rocks worn from running water but the water is now UNDERGROUND; somewhere
Any suggestions about HOW to coax this stream to stay on top of the ground and continue it's old path? It's a beautiful stream up top, about 8' wide, 12" deep and gurgleing over bolders making small water falls etc.
If I could get it to stay above ground I might try a "Brandi" pond

Can you find where the water is going into the ground? If the hole is small enough you could try putting some conrete or bentonite ( similar to drilling mud ) in the hole to plug it. When bentonite mixes with water it swells causing the hole to plug.

 

[pacerron]

Stuck??? How do you define stuck? If I can push myself out with the FEL I don't think of it as being stuck.....So I haven't gotten stuck yet. I will try to find an anchor to chain the tractor to in case there is a major cave in. Thanks for the suggestion! The soil under the curbing is saturated. I picked that side of the culvert because it was the lowest and had the least amount of cave ins from springs.QUOTE]
Stuck means beyond being able to use the FEL....
The main reason I've never taken the FEL off my old Ford 3910 2WD is to get out of stuck situations on my hilly ground. The rear wheels are loaded but not much good on slick surfaces even with full chains on in the winter.Folks also think 4WD can go anywhere until they own one ( and use it ). I'm glad Ialso have a FEL on my New Holland 4020 4WD as I soon found in the winter that it was a life saver. I take the FEL bucket off when mowing or making hay, plowing, etc but leave the frame on. The FEL has the "skid steer" mount for attaching the bucket and it is an easy 2 minute job.
I had a "beyond FEL help" experience on my dam one spring. The ground was still a little soft but I had mowed over the top of the dam a couple times already. The next time I got a little too close to the water side edge and my
left wheel started to sink. I put the bucket down flat immediately for stabilization but the other rear wheel was about a foot off the ground. So I jumped off and waited to see if it was going over. Luckily it didn't but I had to get a big
tow truck with a long winch since I was over 100 feet out on the dam to pull me off. He said up front... it might roll over into the pond, but it didn't do to his expertise. So that's why I always urge caution before working around soft ground.
Chaining off to a front axle or both sides of the axle would be better than
chaining to the bucket in your situation coming up. Good luck, and be carefull climbing on and off the backhoe seat in the muck.
Ron

 

[Boeing]

Brandi, I read the PREHN article thoroughly and it looks real interesting. IF I interpret it correctly (since I HAVE a flowing stream that "disappears").....I would dig a perpendicular (to the stream) trench BELOW the area where the stream disappears. I presume that if I dug deep enough I would "discover" the running water again. THEN build the "tank or box" to collect this water.... or lay a pipe to make it resurface and flow down it's original creek bed? Kinda confused here
The creek bed is about 10-15 feet wide and rough; a test for an "off road" jeep. (if a backhow tried to drive up the dry bed) There is also an old logging road ABOVE the creek bank about 20-40 feet away where a backhoe COULD get to the creek from the side.
I've had 3 well drillers tell me that a well would be 600-800 ft. deep and need casing and a brute pump and wire and $$$.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Getting DRY

 

[pacerron]

I've had 3 well drillers tell me that a well would be 600-800 ft. deep and need casing and a brute pump and wire and $$$.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Getting DRY [/I][/B][/FONT]

Boeing,
Here is why something we have taken for granted should not be:
Groundwater in Virginia

 

[bindian]

The dog is a stray that wondered on our place last year and has not left. The DNA test show she is part:
Cocker Spaniel
German Shorthaired Pointer
Greyhound
Poodle
Bichon Frise
Great Dane
She like to bark at snakes and has an awesome coyote howl, (bilingual).
We thought she was a Whippet and name her Whipper (Whip for short).

Also, if you don't need another vehicle to get out of the mud, you are only delayed.

Don,
Here I thought she was your duck hunting dog, the way she is always in the water. She sure loves the water. I wish Booger would get into my pond to cool off.
hugs, Brandi

 

[Boeing]

I agree completely that our water resources should NEVER be taken for granted....and I place great value on any that is available both for human use as well as agricultural and natures use. One only has to look at the mid-east to see where they have gotten without adequate water.
NOW, back to my questions...trying to get a stream that has gone underground back to the surface for natural beauty, wildlife and my possible use with a reservoir and pump up to my home site. My alternative being a very deep & expensive well. Speaking of well pumps... I am considering a WINDMILL standing over a deep, deep well to fill a reservoir in windy times and store water for dead times. Any excess could be used for irrigation of field crops. (a meager 3 acres) Ideas and suggestions are appreciated....to assume that I do not appreciate our water assets is un-called for.:ashamed:

 

[txdon]

An unwelcome surprise this morning, apparently when I cut the BH access ramp I uncovered 2 more springs. I removed the mud and quickly put down 6 FELs of rock and compacted it. I also made the ramp less steep.

With the culverts nearby the site is ready. But with the temp at 104, I'm taking the rest of the day off. (I still ned to put on the BH.)

It is starting to get exciting, the race will be to put in the culverts and rock before the sides cave in. If successful water should be flowing over the top culvert into the pond.

 

[bindian]

Brandi, I read the PREHN article thoroughly and it looks real interesting. IF I interpret it correctly (since I HAVE a flowing stream that "disappears").....I would dig a perpendicular (to the stream) trench BELOW the area where the stream disappears. I presume that if I dug deep enough I would "discover" the running water again. THEN build the "tank or box" to collect this water.... or lay a pipe to make it resurface and flow down it's original creek bed? Kinda confused here
The creek bed is about 10-15 feet wide and rough; a test for an "off road" jeep. (if a backhow tried to drive up the dry bed) There is also an old logging road ABOVE the creek bank about 20-40 feet away where a backhoe COULD get to the creek from the side.
I've had 3 well drillers tell me that a well would be 600-800 ft. deep and need casing and a brute pump and wire and $$$.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Getting DRY

Rob,
The Prehn Method states........4. Dig the trench about 5 feet uphill
(depending on the slope) from the markers that were put out during the wet season.

But this is for finding water in a hill side where no water is visible. But with the indicator grass and trees. So I think dig above where your stream disappears. Also, I would think if you dug right where it disappears, you could find it and develope it.
hugs, Brandi

 

[Whitnel]

NOW, back to my questions...trying to get a stream that has gone underground back to the surface for natural beauty, wildlife and my possible use with a reservoir and pump up to my home site.

Can you identify the spot where it disapears? Is it possible to plug the hold up so it will stay in the stream bed?

 

[pacerron]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS Ideas and suggestions are appreciated....to assume that I do not appreciate our water assets is un-called for.:ashamed:[/I][/B][/FONT]

Boeing,
There was no assumption stated or even considered by me about your stewardship of the land and natural resources. The URL was offered as a good technical source of the many variables that are involved in your creek going back underground in Virginia strata and leads to solutions to correct it.
Any assumptions are on your part. You asked the forum for help but your comment is not a good stimulus to get much.
Let's get back to Don's project and his photo explanations.
Ron

 

[pacerron]

An unwelcome surprise this morning, apparently when I cut the BH access ramp I uncovered 2 more springs.

Don,
One of those " something goes haywire things" I didn't mentioned. I think the gravel will give you a much better base for the tractor when you use the hoe.
You can probably use some of the ramp gravel in your culverts when you get to that point. It sounds like that hill has been holding a lot of water. I was concerned that when you said the water seepage was slowing down that you might have just hit a pocket and it would dry up in time. You never know about water until a year or so from now.
Good perspective on the pictures.
Ron

 

[txdon]

I'm starting to second guess myself on the culverts. Would one 3' diameter by 6' long be better than 2 to get the 6' length vertically of different diameter. I saw the 3'X6' in town the other day. ??

 

[bindian]

An unwelcome surprise this morning, apparently when I cut the BH access ramp I uncovered 2 more springs. I removed the mud and quickly put down 6 FELs of rock and compacted it. I also made the ramp less steep.

With the culverts nearby the site is ready. But with the temp at 104, I'm taking the rest of the day off. (I still ned to put on the BH.)

It is starting to get exciting, the race will be to put in the culverts and rock before the sides cave in. If successful water should be flowing over the top culvert into the pond.

Don,
That middle photo really shows the slopes well. What were you planning to use the rock for?.........before the bubbling H2O came up?
hugs, Brandi

 

[bindian]

I'm starting to second guess myself on the culverts. Would one 3' diameter by 6' long be better than 2 to get the 6' length vertically of different diameter. I saw the 3'X6' in town the other day. ??

Don,
Yes, less pieces to install and less to worrying about mis aligning.
hugs, Brandi

 

[Bigfoot62]

That just makes me want to do into debt and buy one of those toys!!!!!!

Eddie

Call your local CAT dealer. My cousin owns a construction company. They bought three of the 320D excavators about two years ago.CAT 320D I think they were in the $160,000 range, each. Oh, and be sure to save enough money for fuel. They will burn about 8-10 gallons per hour, depending on how hard you work them.
You called your banker yet?

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Don, you can call that doggie "whipper snapper".:laughing:

I didn't see where the water went in your last set of pic's??? Is it flowing under the rock???

 

[pacerron]

I'm starting to second guess myself on the culverts. Would one 3' diameter by 6' long be better than 2 to get the 6' length vertically of different diameter. I saw the 3'X6' in town the other day. ??

Don,
It depends on the cubic feet of volume you want to retain in the vessel.
1- 4' dia culvert 3' high with a 3' dia culvert 3' high stacked even to give 6 ft total would hold about 38 cu ft of volume.
I-3' diameter culvert 6' long would only hold 28 cu'
So you would have 75 gallon more in the 2 pieces.
Brandi is right about 1 less piece to install. I'm not sure why alignment would be critical in what you are doing though.
Getting one 6 foot long piece level when you fill around it might be harder than with short pieces stacked. The final height and volume capacity will depend on the vessel being level.
I'd dream about how I would have to stake the culvert in place to keep it level while back filling and the teeter factor of 6' vs. 3', etc. etc.
Of course I always think I'm building stuff to last forever. ha.
Ron

 

[txdon]

The rock is left over from my driveway paver project. I used it as the base and compacted it and then put sand on top of it, leveled/sloped it then tapped in/set the pavers and then used polymer sand to bind it all together. Well, the first 500, I still have 12,000 to lay after I finish the last 160' of curbing.

Kyle the water is flowing from all sides, I can't really pinpoint a specific spot. Is this how a spring flows?

It seems like the clay has fingers of sand running through it in it and the water is following through the sand fingers, straw size.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

The rock is left over from my driveway paver project. I used it as the base and compacted it and then put sand on top of it, leveled/sloped it then tapped in/set the pavers and then used polymer sand to bind it all together. Well, the first 500, I still have 12,000 to lay after I finish the last 160' of curbing.

Kyle the water is flowing from all sides, I can't really pinpoint a specific spot. Is this how a spring flows?

It seems like the clay has fingers of sand running through it in it and the water is following through the sand fingers, straw size.

I've heard about impermeable layers of clay that act like yours. The watershed collects water on top of the clay and finds a way out where the clay surfaces. Yours maybe totally different than this. Sounds like your having fun except for the heat. It would be so cool if you end up with a clear water trough for whippersnapper to play in and the cows get a drink.

I know some folks that have a ranch over near Nixon Tx. and they have an artesian well. They have it fixed to come out of a 2" ID pipe into a 5' or 6' concrete trough. It comes out a bit warm and is not so refreshing on a hot day except to get the day's dust off of you.