Operating Big Excavator?

[Glowplug]

I have about 40-50 trees on my property I need to get rid of. They measure between 12 - 24" diameter trunk on average . From what I've read it seems an excavator is the best way to clear property of trees. I was thinking about looking into renting an excavator to do this. Probably something in the neighborhood of a Case CX160 or CX210 (100-130hp and 35-45,000lbs). Of course I could just hire someone to do this, but what's the fun in that? Now, I know how to drive a tractor with a FEL but how do you drive/operate a track excavator? Are there any resources to learn how? Is there any special training/certification required? Would there be any insurance issues with this? Or am I just totally nuts for even considering this?

 

[john_bud]

"Or am I just totally nuts for even considering this?"

Not nuts, just optimistic.


The best way is to have someone else cut the trees. If you let them keep the trees, that should cover the costs of removing the stumps and shredding the slashings. Of course, it depends on the value of the trees. Junk trees have no value.

I would guess that in the time you were able to teach yourself to operate a 40,000# excavator and pull your first tree, a pro would be done, gone home, have his feet up and be popping his 2nd beer. That is assuming that you found a rental place that would rent $200,000 of equipment to a non-qualified heavy equipment operator.


If it was my land and $$$, I would buy an old TLB like a Ford 555 or Case 580 and do it myself. You can get decent 555's for $8-12,000. That's probably 2-3x the cost of renting a big excavator, having it delivered etc. But you get to keep it...

Let us know your final decision!

jb

 

[PBinWA]

I think John pretty much summed it up. I think you need to have insurance before they rent you the really big stuff.

Most of the Excavator controls appear to be standard (ISO) so you should be able to rent a small one to practice on and then move up if you are able to rent a big one.

For $1100, I was able to get a 55,000 lb Excavator to remove 55 trees the size of yours in about 4 hours. Call around to Excavation companies and try to find one that has some idle equipment.

Remember, that with bigger equipment you can make bigger mistakes.

 

[hemiguy]

Hi,
I agree totally with what the others are saying. That really sounds like a job for a professional. A tree with 24" trunk maybe 50 feet tall probably outweighs the excavator. One wrong move and the tree and its friend gravity would probably win. Besides, what on earth would you do with all that wood once the trees are down. If the trees are healthy hardwoods I would check your local yellow pages or just ask around for some timber/forest management companies. Up here in my neck of the woods (upstate NY) there are several outfits that specialize in small logging jobs like yours. I think most people are suprised at what their trees are worth and its possible they would pay you to do the job! I have a friend that had this done and I will have to ask him what his deal was. Of course if they are junk trees its a different story, but my guess is you won't find anyplace that will rent you the excavator. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Glowplug]

Remember, that with bigger equipment you can make bigger mistakes.

Yeah, I guess y'all are right. I could see me crushing myself, or worse yet, crushing my home. My wife wouldn't put it past me or let me live it down! She remembers well when I was learning how to operate my ZTR mower all the landscape lighting, shrubbery, and chunks of house siding that met an untimely demise. If a 1,600# mower could do that I would hate to think the damage a 40,000# excavator would do!! And it's got a big long swingy thingy on it! That's probably asking for trouble! I would be better off squishing myself! This is the way I do sometimes. I get an idea, it escalates in scale dramatically, I become totally obsessed with it, then common sense (wife) kicks back in.

 

[JimParker]

then common sense (wife) kicks back in.

LOL. My wife sometimes thinks that's the only reason I married her... She keeps me out of trouble, though! Well, most of the time!

 

[CurlyDave]

I watched a guy with a big excavator (with thumb) take out about 20 trees that size building my road & house pad.

The technique is different than you might imagine.

He would open the bucket & thumb and then swing this slowly against the tree about 1/2 way up. This would cause the tree to lean over and ultimately it would lean far enough so that closing the bucket & thumb would grasp the tree. By this time there were enough roots torn free that he could just lift the tree & roots out of the ground & put it down wherever he wanted.

The whole cycle took 1-2 minutes and then he would position the excavator for the next one.

Hire it done & watch -- don't cut the trees down first -- stump removal is harder than when the tree is attached.

 

[Doc_Bob]

"
If it was my land and $$$, I would buy an old TLB like a Ford 555 or Case 580 and do it myself. You can get decent 555's for $8-12,000. That's probably 2-3x the cost of renting a big excavator, having it delivered etc. But you get to keep it...

Use it and then sell it.
Bob

 

[bamatoolmaker]

I agree with the previous replies but would like to say that the first thing I would do is get a timber broker to come and look at what you have.You would really be shocked at what they are willing to pay for timber.I have a friend that sells fire wood this time of year and can get $300 a pickup load for firewood now he does have to load it for them but does not have to haul it.He has one customer that only wants cottonwood.If you can sell that I wouldn't call anything junk.

 

[Charlesaf3]

I watched a guy with a big excavator (with thumb) take out about 20 trees that size building my road & house pad.

The technique is different than you might imagine.

He would open the bucket & thumb and then swing this slowly against the tree about 1/2 way up. This would cause the tree to lean over and ultimately it would lean far enough so that closing the bucket & thumb would grasp the tree. By this time there were enough roots torn free that he could just lift the tree & roots out of the ground & put it down wherever he wanted.

The whole cycle took 1-2 minutes and then he would position the excavator for the next one.

Hire it done & watch -- don't cut the trees down first -- stump removal is harder than when the tree is attached.

Yep, pretty much how I saw it done.

Of course, the least work in tree work is dropping it - its cutting it up afterwards and dealing with the slash thats the pain

 

[40Kchicks]

A couple of years ago I needed to put a road into my place which required a lot of excavation. Due to my poor planning I couldn’t get anyone in to do the job when I need it done so I called up Hertz and had a JD 120C delivered. The driver showed me the controls and off I went. It didn’t take very long before I was moving lots of dirt fast and the project went great.

This year I did a huge expansion of my poultry farm and we had a JD 160 and Kobelco 128 on the project. The excavation contractor was strapped for help so I ran the excavators a lot. I trenched thousands of feet for water, gas and electrical. I must have done alright because boss offered me a job running equipment for him but I already have two jobs.

The work requires a lot of concentration and precise control which tires my back after a day or so. Working on the flat is easy but often that’s not were I needed to go so that can get a little scary. Excavators tip over all the time, just ask your rental yard.

In summary a rental yard will deliver an excavator out to you. It will take some time to get good at the controls so you won’t really save any money on a small project but you will learn a new skill and have fun doing it. Most of all be careful.

Eric

 

[PBinWA]

He would open the bucket & thumb and then swing this slowly against the tree about 1/2 way up. This would cause the tree to lean over and ultimately it would lean far enough so that closing the bucket & thumb would grasp the tree. By this time there were enough roots torn free that he could just lift the tree & roots out of the ground & put it down wherever he wanted.

If they're really good they shake all the dirt off back in the hole and press it down nice and flat (an extra 2 minutes for them).

Agreed that getting rid of the trees is a hassle. I've worked through half my 55 trees (no wood fireplace so I'm just giving it away) in two years. I had him stack them up in an out-of-sight (well for me - maybe not my neighbors) corner and I hack away at them whenever I have free time (not that often).

If anyone in SW Washington State wants some well aged fire wood let me know.

 

[AndyMA]

I have always loved excavators so about 3 years ago I bought a well used 44,000 lb Hitachi (120 hp Isuzu-runs great) I've got about 20 years on backhoes and the change over took quite a while. Now I much prefer the excavator controls. BTW, I have never found a place that would rent a large excavator to you without your having both liability and physical damage insurance and having a certificate of insurance sent to the rental company. It may be very difficult to get this type of insuranceif you don't have the experience and perhaps the license (in Mass it's' called a hydraulics license) to operate the class of machine you are renting. As others have said, rental yards are reluctant to rent a $150,000 plus piece of equipment to an inexperienced individual. One wrong swing of it's 27 foot arm and a house comes down.... flipping an excavator is also not hard to do. I can pick up a 12,000 lb rock with mine.

Andy

 

[BTDT]

I used to belong to the local Operating Engineers union here in Dallas. Most large construction jobs required union operators, union iron workers, etc. This was 20 yrs ago. With all the cheap labor now and folks needing jobs, I don't know how it works now. But as has been said, you can learn, but at whose expense. Call around and see about prices and requirements. Good luck and happy tractoring.

 

[GEB]

If it's about the money as it was for me...
I rented a 11000 lb machine which can be towed with a 3/4 ton truck.
I was very impressed with the power of this machine 50hp..?
Drop the trees, drag them off, then a smaller excavator will take the
stumps out like magic.
I might add it was very easy to operate...fun! $225 aday was also a steal of a deal.
I had mainly got it to clean up the edge of my pond.
I've also had 2 very big excavators and dozers on my property to clear
75+ tall trees and clear a creek.
Droping complete trees stump and all is by far a job for a pro!
And for the most part they actually used the dozers to push the trees over!
He would use his bucket to cut the roots, build a ramp with dirt, it was a site to see.
Never spent 1/2 hour on a single tree, no tree less than 75ft tall,
and yes I'm still cuttin those trees up

 

[Dargo]

I've had the fortunate/unfortunate (you choose) opportunity to operate a huge variety of equipment in my life. One of the more difficult to master; I mean get really precise and quick with, was a 100k plus excavator. I'd had a couple hundred hours on a 50k machine and figured that it would be exactly the same, only it would work faster and move bigger things. It's hard to explain, but it was just different. I'd say that the average guy who can run a tractor with an FEL without thinking about what he is doing can learn to be relatively capable on an excavator in a couple of days worth of work. The problem is that, in the original poster's case, an experienced operator would be in and out, having done a better job, in far less time than that.

There is also the example of when you think you can operate a piece of equipment properly and when you really can. Take for instance a Cat D11 dozer. With all the new electronics and everything, they are actually quite easy to do basic things with one. The problem is that you can make a huge mess rather quickly, and keep making things worse even faster trying to clean up your mess. I was shown how to make a couple of passes by huge oak trees with the rear ripper down to rip the roots loose. Now, these trees were so big that a 36" bar on a chain saw would not have been nearly enough to cut them in half. Then, after the roots are ripped, simply put the blade into the tree a few feet off the ground, pour the power to the tracks, and lift on the blade. Pop, and over goes the huge tree away from the dozer and all is well. As people seem to do, I got a bit lazy and found that I could do the same thing without ripping the roots much. Hey, big powerful dozer, and it was fun. That was until I pushed over an absolutely huge oak and the root ball came up between the front blade and the dozer.

I'm talking 6 hours later with almost 10 acres destroyed and I'm still backing in circles across ditches, smashing other trees etc. trying to turn loose of that darn tree!! Rather than waste even more time I had to get my chain saw and spend a couple of hours hacking away at roots to get it loose. So, I thought I knew how to properly operate that piece of equipment, but I really didn't.

 

[PBinWA]

Trust Dargo to have a good story about messing things up!

I resampled and posted a video of the 55,000 lb Kobelco Excavator pulling out an approximately 18"-24" Douglas Fir. Even with shaking the dirt out the whole process takes less than 2 minutes. The tree looks pretty small next to the Excavator but it was pretty big. Not big enough to be marketable timber but big enough to be a hassle to do by saw and stump grinder.

treeremovalMay2005.mpg - Google Video

Let me know if there are problems with the video. It's my first time posting video to google.

 

[PBinWA]

I have always loved excavators so about 3 years ago I bought a well used 44,000 lb Hitachi (120 hp Isuzu-runs great) I've got about 20 years on backhoes and the change over took quite a while. Now I much prefer the excavator controls. BTW, I have never found a place that would rent a large excavator to you without your having both liability and physical damage insurance and having a certificate of insurance sent to the rental company. It may be very difficult to get this type of insuranceif you don't have the experience and perhaps the license (in Mass it's' called a hydraulics license) to operate the class of machine you are renting. As others have said, rental yards are reluctant to rent a $150,000 plus piece of equipment to an inexperienced individual. One wrong swing of it's 27 foot arm and a house comes down.... flipping an excavator is also not hard to do. I can pick up a 12,000 lb rock with mine.

Andy

I suspect the place that rented a big Excavator to 40Kchicks was pretty rural and used to renting big equipment to farmers. Closer in to the city they start asking more questions. I thought about doing it myself too but no one would rent me a big excavator. I can rent a little Bobcat mini-excavator easily but most places are hesitant to rent the big stuff unless you are a business with insurance or perhaps a long time customer with demonstrated ability.

 

[Glowplug]

I resampled and posted a video of the 55,000 lb Kobelco Excavator pulling out an approximately 18"-24" Douglas Fir. Even with shaking the dirt out the whole process takes less than 2 minutes.

That is really quite impressive and entertaining! It actually took him almost no time to bring the tree down. Most of the time is spent shaking almost all the dirt off the root ball! Okay, I now know it would be best to have a professional do this job. I believe I will call one of the large heavy equipment rental dealers and ask if they know of any contractors they could recommend. I want someone who could do the job like that in the video with a big excavator and thumb. Of course, then I'll probably have to have a couple of dump trucks of topsoil brought in to fill in and level the holes.

 

[PBinWA]

I want someone who could do the job like that in the video with a big excavator and thumb. Of course, then I'll probably have to have a couple of dump trucks of topsoil brought in to fill in and level the holes.

I just kept pestering local Excavation companies. You have to get them during some down time when the equipment is sitting idle (and not making them or their employees any money). It took me about three months to get someone as one company strung me along for a while so when the next guys I called said they could come the following Monday I jumped at it.

The neat thing about getting all the dirt off the root ball is that you don't really end up with a big hole. There is usually enough dirt to fill it all back in.

I just had to dig out a few remaining roots that broke off and then I middle busted (just find hidden treasures), tilled, graded, and seeded the area. The only extra dirt I brought in was along the driveway where the old dirt was too rocky for nice lawn.

Now it's all nice flat lawn.