ordering trailer -sanity check please

wango tango · Jul 31, 2012

i'm ordering a 20+2 14k lb bumper pull trailer to use for me 4410 + 430 loader + 513 brush hog. also plan to use it for an oliver 1650 + loader. i will pull it with my 06 2500HD with a duramax.

a bit nervous about the length. on one hand i dont want to be too long, as it may be hard to maneuver and more expensive. but on the other, i want to be able to leave the ramps on (it has flip up ramps) and put my atv on it also, with my tractor/brush hog/loader.

thoughts?

deere5105 · Jul 31, 2012

I have basically the same trailer set up and would not recommend going any shorter.

OrangeToys · Jul 31, 2012

I have same size trailer and same truck and i have no problems at all. If i was doing it again I'd go the 5th wheel or gooseneck. But its a great setup still, never had a problem with turning or backing up

gumshu · Jul 31, 2012

wango tango said:
i'm ordering a 20+2 14k lb bumper pull trailer to use for me 4410 + 430 loader + 513 brush hog. also plan to use it for an oliver 1650 + loader. i will pull it with my 06 2500HD with a duramax.

a bit nervous about the length. on one hand i dont want to be too long, as it may be hard to maneuver and more expensive. but on the other, i want to be able to leave the ramps on (it has flip up ramps) and put my atv on it also, with my tractor/brush hog/loader.

thoughts?

Perfect. I have the 18' and it's too short.

case245 · Jul 31, 2012

i have a 20 foot 10k with slide in ramps use to pull my kubota 7040su

jenkinsph · Jul 31, 2012

wango tango said:
i'm ordering a 20+2 14k lb bumper pull trailer to use for me 4410 + 430 loader + 513 brush hog. also plan to use it for an oliver 1650 + loader. i will pull it with my 06 2500HD with a duramax.

a bit nervous about the length. on one hand i dont want to be too long, as it may be hard to maneuver and more expensive. but on the other, i want to be able to leave the ramps on (it has flip up ramps) and put my atv on it also, with my tractor/brush hog/loader.

thoughts?

Sounds like a great setup to me, I have a 20ft 12k with slide in ramps and it is long enough to backup easily. The short trailers are alot more trouble imo. I also prefer the bumper pull trailers for most things I do.

RPW · Aug 1, 2012

I'm running a 20 + 5 GN 14K GCVW with a 07 2500HD dmax. Truck doesn't even know it's back there

Great combo. Just pulled a tad over 10k of hay. No problem.

Ordite · Aug 1, 2012

I'm sure you will be happy with your planned purchase. When I bought my trailer to haul a JD3320 with FEL and box blade, I planned to buy an 18ft. tilt-bed trailer. I also was nervous about pulling a longer trailer and maneuvering city streets and close quarters.

The dealer did not have an 18 ft. in stock but had two 20 ft. trailers. He sold me a 20 ft. for the price an 18 ft. would have cost as a price increase had went into effect for new orders. Now I am glad for the extra length and would probably consider a longer length if I were to purchase a new trailer. A couple of loaded trips to become accustomed to the trailer and you will find that pulling and maneuvering the longer trailer is not an issue.

meburdick · Aug 1, 2012

The longer your trailer is with respect to the length of the tow vehicle, the easier it is to back up. As far as pulling, that trailer is not much longer than my 16 + 2, and I have absolutely no issues with mine. Better to have a little extra room than be too short.

boggen · Aug 1, 2012

someone already beat me to it, was going to say go 5th wheel or goose neck. and if not see about a weight distribution hitch.

my personal pev with bumper pull trailers. is you need to be extra careful in were you set the load on the trailer to get correct weight on the hitch. and when ya hit bumps or holes in the road. your front end gets light or may come off the ground. ((errr teeter totter effect, of truck and trailer and bumper hitch errr framed mounted receiver / hitch))

meburdick · Aug 2, 2012

boggen said:
someone already beat me to it, was going to say go 5th wheel or goose neck. and if not see about a weight distribution hitch.

my personal pev with bumper pull trailers. is you need to be extra careful in were you set the load on the trailer to get correct weight on the hitch. and when ya hit bumps or holes in the road. your front end gets light or may come off the ground. ((errr teeter totter effect, of truck and trailer and bumper hitch errr framed mounted receiver / hitch))

Loading the cargo at the appropriate location on the trailer is something that needs to be done correctly regardless of hitch type. If the front end is getting loose while pulling, the weight isn't loaded correctly and/or you need a WDH to haul that load. Switching to a GN hitch will "mask" the problem of being loaded wrong because it doesn't have the same sort of impact on the front wheels. The axles of the trailer should be carrying 85%-90% of the cargo and trailer weight and the rest transfers up to the tow vehicle. If you're outside of this formula in either direction, the trailer is not going to tow correctly / safely.

94BULLITT · Aug 2, 2012

Be sure the trailer hitch and drawbar you are going to use are rated for that much weight. Like someone said you may want to go with a weight distributing hitch. Here is a magizine artcile on a W-D hitch with before and after pics of a loaded trailer.

RPW · Aug 2, 2012

Correct on the position of the load. To far back or to far forward and it feels like a bucking bronc.

jdonovan · Aug 8, 2012

At that size/weight, I would be going gooseneck. At a minium you _NEED_ a weight distributing hitch.

I prefer deck over vs. low boy. I can haul anything up to legal width that way. Also makes it easier to load palletized things onto the trailer.

Consider ramps that flip up onto the dovetail to form a flat deck. Makes it nicer for securing a bush hog, or other long equipment on the back of the tractor.

Put a tape measure on tractor/loader/bush hog, and compare that to where the axles on the trailer are. Make sure your load center is near to the axle line on the trailer, and you still have a few feet in either direction to get the load balanced right.

meburdick · Aug 8, 2012

jdonovan said:
At that size/weight, I would be going gooseneck. At a minium you _NEED_ a weight distributing hitch.

I prefer deck over vs. low boy. I can haul anything up to legal width that way. Also makes it easier to load palletized things onto the trailer.

Consider ramps that flip up onto the dovetail to form a flat deck. Makes it nicer for securing a bush hog, or other long equipment on the back of the tractor.

Put a tape measure on tractor/loader/bush hog, and compare that to where the axles on the trailer are. Make sure your load center is near to the axle line on the trailer, and you still have a few feet in either direction to get the load balanced right.

Sorry, but wrong. Whether or not you need a WDH is determined by the tongue weight that will be in effect and the capability of the tow vehicle to handle that tongue weight.

jdonovan · Aug 9, 2012

meburdick said:
Sorry, but wrong. Whether or not you need a WDH is determined by the tongue weight that will be in effect and the capability of the tow vehicle to handle that tongue weight.

ok Mr Pedantic.

I did ASSume the OP wasn't running a 60,000+ GVW tow rig.

Given the weight of the 4410, loader, and mower, plus trailer weight, with any 1-ton or less pickup as a tow rig, I will stand by my original statement of NEEDING a WD setup to be properly configured as recommended by the manufacturer.

meburdick · Aug 9, 2012

jdonovan said:
ok Mr Pedantic.

I did ASSume the OP wasn't running a 60,000+ GVW tow rig.

Given the weight of the 4410, loader, and mower, plus trailer weight, with any 1-ton or less pickup as a tow rig, I will stand by my original statement of NEEDING a WD setup to be properly configured as recommended by the manufacturer.

And you will continue to give BAD information.

The tractor is 2900 pounds. Guesstimating loader weight with bucket at 450, mower at 200, and a 14k trailer in the 3500 area puts the total transport weight at 7050 lbs. Add weight for chains and binders, and then allow for tire ballasting and a heavier mower. You're still under 8500 lbs. That calls for somewhere around 850 lbs of tongue weight and I do not need any sort of WDH to tow that with my HALF TON Tundra. If I had a brand new F-150, I would need a WDH.

You can't make broad-stroke statements like yours because they do not work in all situations. Instead, provide information on how to evaluate and understand whether a WDH is required or not and let the person reading the thread make their own assessment.

jdonovan · Aug 10, 2012

meburdick said:
And you will continue to give BAD information.

No sir, it is YOU who is wrong here.

From the Chevrolet towing guide

If you'll be towing a trailer that, when loaded, will weigh more than 5,000 lbs., be sure to use a frame-mounted, weight-distributing hitch and sway control of the proper size. This equipment is very important for proper vehicle loading and good handling when you're driving.

So again I stand by by original statement the OP NEEDS a WD hitch to be properly equipped to tow that load according to the vehicle manufacturer.

meburdick · Aug 10, 2012

jdonovan said:
No sir, it is YOU who is wrong here.

From the Chevrolet towing guide

So again I stand by by original statement the OP NEEDS a WD hitch to be properly equipped to tow that load according to the vehicle manufacturer.

Once again, you've completely missed the point.

You are making broad-stroke statements that are NOT accurate. I have already shown your generalized statement to be incorrect when you said that a WDH was required based solely on size and weight.

With regard to the OP, his specific vehicle, and his intentions for a trailer, you have failed to understand that:

A) His vehicle is rated to tow, depending on specific options installed in the vehicle, a max GTWR of somewhere between 14,600 and 16,100.
B) *GENERAL MOTORS* has stated that towing a trailer above 5,000 lbs will require a WDH (due to the tongue weight limit of 500 lbs).

While your "answer" was correct, your reasoning was not. I am trying to point out that you "did the math" for him and make a generalized statement that doesn't hold water. Specifically, for this posted, with this trailer, and this tow vehicle, and WDH is required for a bumper-pull trailer.

My truck is not rated to pull a trailer that heavy. If stay within the 10k rating, though, I do not need a WDH because my truck is rated for the tongue weight. The need for a WDH for a particular trailer / load is based on the TOW VEHICLE'S max tongue weight rating, and NOT something that can be ascertained solely from knowing the size and weight of a trailer.

This is an incredibly important point to understand because it allows for the purchase and use of the CORRECT WDH as it will be rated to handle a specific amount of tongue weight. Keep standing over there... I won't be standing with you.

joshuabardwell · Aug 10, 2012

meburdick said:
The axles of the trailer should be carrying 85%-90% of the cargo and trailer weight and the rest transfers up to the tow vehicle. If you're outside of this formula in either direction, the trailer is not going to tow correctly / safely.

I don't think that's true for a gooseneck or 5th-wheel. Bumper pulls have 10-15% tongue weight. Gooseneck and 5th-wheel have 25%. Don't ask me why, though.