Pacemaker + Welding

[swines]

As a point of interest for those people with a pacemaker or a cardioverter (pacemaker / defibrillator) I thought I'd post my latest experience.

I have had a cardioverter for the past 4 years, and the electrophysiologist said that I should not weld using a stick welder as the arc was too big and would generate too much EMI / RFI- and that would interfere with the operation of the cardioverter. On his advice, I've never stick welded.

He said I might be able to MIG weld, but I would have to try it and should never drape the leads over my shoulders as the wire does broadcast EMI/RFI and being that close to the cardioverter would cause interfernce. I have never welded with the leads over my shoulders, so that wasn't really a concern for me. As a test, I tried MIG welding about two years ago with an 80 Amp setting - that didn't go well, as I could feel the irregular heart beats when the arc was on. So, I have given up on MIG welding.

I have tried TIG welding and that seems to go just fine as the arc is so small ....until this week.

I had TIG welded a small flat spring onto a hook that fastens a shoulder strap to my Stihl Kombi system power head. I am right handed, so the torch was always in my right hand when it was active.

I needed to bleed the gas out of the welder, so I closed the valve on the bottle, and proceeded to bleed the gas. For whatever reason, I decided to hold the torch in my left hand and stepped on the foot pedal to start the gas flow - which also starts the high frequency arc starter current.

I pushed down on the pedal and the room faded to black in about 5 seconds - it literally stopped the cardioverter, and apparently, my heart. I was standing up while I did this and stumbled off the foot pedal, which stopped the arc, and the room came back to daylight over a period of about 15 seconds.

Note to self: do not hold the TIG torch in your left hand and activate the machine.

So, for those people with pacemakers or cardioverters who may contemplate attempting to weld - my recommendation is to NOT hold any welding electrode in your left hand.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

I have been told that they DO make shielded pacemakers and such just for these cases. I am no expert, and rely upon what others have told me about them.

 

[CDN Farm Boy]

Sounds like you got lucky. Thanks for the info, definitely something to be aware of. I've been CPR certified and a volunteer firefighter for 12 yrs and never thought about the effects of welding like you are describing.

 

[swines]

I have been told that they DO make shielded pacemakers and such just for these cases. I am no expert, and rely upon what others have told me about them.

That is, at best, a secondary consideration for the electrophysiologist. Their concern is matching the pacemaker or cardioverter to your physiological requirements. The main ones being programming requirements and how many and what type of leads are needed.

As an example, I have a cardioverter specifically because I had ventricular tachycardia problems and the cardioverter has the ability to monitor and analyze heart waveforms, has a wider range of pacing routines, higher pacing level (beats per minute), and can pace your heart out of tachycardia arrhythmia event - something a pacemaker cannot do. Lastly, if needed, it can apply a direct shock to the heart to stop the tachycardia.

That's why shielding is secondary or tertiary to the functions of the unit.

I'm not sure a shielded pacemaker would have done any good as I think the EMI/RFI was conducted through my body on the left side directly to the cardioverter leads.

 

[pmsmechanic]

This is interesting. I have a defibrillator because of cardiac myopathy. When I first got it in I was real careful but as I lived I decided to try a few things out. I've never had the problems that you have had and honestly at this point in time if I need to weld I just grab my arc welder and go to it. I had one heart doc tell me that I shouldn't weld but I told him it was to late for that. I'm wondering if there aren't differences between manufacturers and also defibrillators and pacemakers.

Here is all the info from the manufacturer of my ICD. It's interesting to read. http://www.medtronic.com/wcm/groups...ments/documents/electromag-compat-english.pdf

 

[CNC Dan]

I have had a cardioverter for the past 4 years, and the electrophysiologist said that I should not weld using a stick welder as the arc was too big and would generate too much EMI / RFI- and that would interfere with the operation of the cardioverter. On his advice, I've never stick welded.

It's not just the arc, but the entire length of leads. I would think that without any high frequency, stick welding would be best. Also try to not have your body(chest) within the loop that the leads make. And use DC only.

I can understand if you don't want to try it.

 

[mark02tj]

My now ex-wife has a defibrillator in her chest. She actually started out with an early, experimental, non-FDA approved model back in '89. I remember back then that they told her not to do any arc-welding. In her case it wasn't a problem. :laughing:

THANKS for sharing your experience! Interesting to see what happened. Glad to hear that you're OK and no permanent damage or injuries from the fall!!

 

[Big Barn]

I guess I'd like to say two things here:

1. To the OP - glad you are ok and thanks for an informative and interesting post

2. Kind of wondering if I ever have to get a pacemaker if I had enough courage to give it a try, even after having it for awhile. I'd prob give myself a heart attack in anticipation moments before striking that first arc.

Terry

 

[Brad_Blazer]

I would strongly recommend the buddy system for any pacemaker welding experiments. (At least one buddy without a pacemaker)

That said, here is an interesting product line: EMF Safety Garments, Bedding, & Grounding Devices
I saw this posted in another thread and one comment was: "If I buy a useful item intended for kooks does that make me a kook?"

 

[Arc weld]

I think using high frequency would be worst with a pacemaker or cardoiverter.

 

[Big Barn]

I would strongly recommend the buddy system for any pacemaker welding experiments. ?"

MY buddies would be crankin up the amps the the second I nodded my hood.

Terry

 

[bumperm]

I'm reasonably familiar with EMI/RFI, being an Electronics Technician in the Navy (63 - 70). I don't have any experience with pacemakers, but do weld.

One would think that a wearable external grounded metal meshshield should provide adequate protection, but I can't find anything on line that would support that view. Only that chain saws are to be avoided as well, due to the closeness of the ignition system . . . probably should have added weed whackers too.

 

[CobyRupert]

I'm reasonably familiar with EMI/RFI, being an Electronics Technician in the Navy (63 - 70). I don't have any experience with pacemakers, but do weld. One would think that a wearable external grounded metal meshshield should provide adequate protection, but I can't find anything on line that would support that view. Only that chain saws are to be avoided as well, due to the closeness of the ignition system . . . probably should have added weed whackers too.

To avoid EMF's, one would think grounded shielding would be your friend, and distance to your chest from the current, including all cables, is right up there too.
Perhaps you have a medieval reenactment friend whose has a spare suit of armor or some chain mail.

 

[CobyRupert]

I think using high frequency would be worst with a pacemaker or cardoiverter.

Agree

 

[CobyRupert]

I'm curious where the leads where when the OP put the torch in his left hand and hit the pedal?

 

[Sprinklerman]

Live a bit longer , hard to do but leave the welding to someone else . I did some welding for a guy and he left the building , I was like " what are you scared of " he told me about the pacemaker .

 

[Brad_Blazer]

My plasma torch with HF start always makes my shop stereo crap out and I have to reset it to get it to play again.

 

[Dieseljeeper]

I've been equipped with an ICD for the last 7 years. I was also told I couldn't weld and being a crane mechanic with two years left to retire from IUOE I was not going to leave that on the table without a fight . I contacted Medtronic, the manufacturer of the pacemaker, explained my problem and it was suggested to keep the leads on the same side of my body. The magnetic field created by welding is what shuts off the pacemaker. This has worked for me since I had it placed and I have done a lot of both stick and mig welding and am left handed. The important thing is to stay safe and healthy but you could try stick welding gently and see if it works for you as well. Good luck

 

[RBLapham]

I too am left handed and have an ICD but have the ICD on my right side. So the comment about not using the left hand is for people that have their device implanted on the left. Keep everything as far away from the ICD as possible. I arc weld and wrap the two cables around each other lightly, this cuts down on the EMF from the welding. Also my cardiologist told me for MY ICD I would be safe under 200 amps using an arc welder. Also try not to get the electrode stuck when striking an arc because that is where the greatest EMF is generated. I also use a chain saw, string trimmer and leaf blower - all gas powered. Just keep the spark plug at a distance - don't hug the chain saw when running 5 years with my ICD. Disclaimer - all ICD's and pacemakers are different so this may not be good information, be careful.

 

[Dieseljeeper]

RB Lapham mine is on the left, I also use a chain saw and weed eater with no ill effects but I also thought of the possibility that they are not all the same and I'm glad you pointed that out as well, the last thing I want is to cause someone problems. I like the idea about making a twisted pair out of the welding leads. Very cool idea! If I have a torch and an air hose along side my leads they eventually end up that way anyway lol. Before I retired I was working on a P&H 5150 while it was running and got over the magnatorque which is an electromagnetic swing brake. I cannot recommend that for a big and rich time