Photo comparison: NH, Kubota, Branson, JD, etc
- Thread starter Bob_Skurka
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Bob_Skurka
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<font color="red"> I was thinking protected as in protective covers </font>
I think that is a good way to look at it. But expand your definition just a little bit. If the hoses are exposed above the level of the hood and the level of the arm, then neither the hood, nor the arm can offer any protection to the hoses from things that might snag them. Hence, it was suggested that hoses that extend up above the level of the hood & loader arms are "unprotected."
What I don't understand is why it is such a big deal. I think there are now pictures of 7 different tractors in this thread (JD4310, Kubota B7800, B2910, B3030, Branson 3510, NH TC33DA and NH TC35DA) and the term could only be applied to one of them. 3 had fender mount loader controls. 4 had loader mount fender controls. What is the big deal? It is simply pointing out that there are differences and letting people decide if that matters to them after looking at the pictures.
I think that is a good way to look at it. But expand your definition just a little bit. If the hoses are exposed above the level of the hood and the level of the arm, then neither the hood, nor the arm can offer any protection to the hoses from things that might snag them. Hence, it was suggested that hoses that extend up above the level of the hood & loader arms are "unprotected."
What I don't understand is why it is such a big deal. I think there are now pictures of 7 different tractors in this thread (JD4310, Kubota B7800, B2910, B3030, Branson 3510, NH TC33DA and NH TC35DA) and the term could only be applied to one of them. 3 had fender mount loader controls. 4 had loader mount fender controls. What is the big deal? It is simply pointing out that there are differences and letting people decide if that matters to them after looking at the pictures.
To20Chris
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Perhaps the title should reflect that this is a comparison of LODAERS, not so much of tractors. Many of the new tractors have the joystick integrated, but the FEL is still a separate piece of equipment, and often is not made by the same organization. You can easily end up with different levels of quality (both of design and manufacture) between the tractor and the loader. Certainly worth considering, but not the whole story.
OP
Bob_Skurka
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Chris, the problem is that it is too easy to get into brand wars. We are not even fighting over brands yet, so far it is just one word.
I wanted to include some additional pictures but figured they were simply subjective. And then there are other issues like digital dash versus analog. Steel fenders & hoods versus plastic. Curved arm loaders versus straight arm. Cup holders, glove holders, sunglass holders versus some or none. Ergonomics. Etc.
Again, I did this thread in a cooperative effort with several other folks who have not posted their pictures yet. I think when they do, it will appear pretty obvious that we can show pictures and simply let people decided what is important to each user. Some people live in the woods, others on flat open land, others in the hills. No one tractor is perfect for everyone. But for a new shopper, some folks might not even consider some of the differences and this may in some way help them.
I wanted to include some additional pictures but figured they were simply subjective. And then there are other issues like digital dash versus analog. Steel fenders & hoods versus plastic. Curved arm loaders versus straight arm. Cup holders, glove holders, sunglass holders versus some or none. Ergonomics. Etc.
Again, I did this thread in a cooperative effort with several other folks who have not posted their pictures yet. I think when they do, it will appear pretty obvious that we can show pictures and simply let people decided what is important to each user. Some people live in the woods, others on flat open land, others in the hills. No one tractor is perfect for everyone. But for a new shopper, some folks might not even consider some of the differences and this may in some way help them.
Tractors4u
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Perhaps the title should reflect that this is a comparison of LODAERS, not so much of tractors. )</font>
Chris,
When Bob PM'd me about taking some pictures he made it clear that he was looking for pictures of specific parts and not the whole tractor. I think people get offended too easily on here sometimes and what Bob was trying to do was point out the differences of certain components without being blinded by the color of the tractor. Close-ups and partial pictures really draw your attention. I can see the next segment of this comparison being the 3 point hitch and how it adjusts, the dash board(analog or digital), engine access, etc. I think this is a pretty good thread. I just hope it doesn't get picked to death. Let's just discuss the difference in the tractors and we can start an "Impeach Bob Skurka" thread separately! Just kidding Bob, /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Chris,
When Bob PM'd me about taking some pictures he made it clear that he was looking for pictures of specific parts and not the whole tractor. I think people get offended too easily on here sometimes and what Bob was trying to do was point out the differences of certain components without being blinded by the color of the tractor. Close-ups and partial pictures really draw your attention. I can see the next segment of this comparison being the 3 point hitch and how it adjusts, the dash board(analog or digital), engine access, etc. I think this is a pretty good thread. I just hope it doesn't get picked to death. Let's just discuss the difference in the tractors and we can start an "Impeach Bob Skurka" thread separately! Just kidding Bob, /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Great thread Bob.
I don't have a tractor in this range so I can't provide any input other than to point out a potential problem with the bucket classification method you are using. I don't think it hinders or aids any brand in particular, but classifying bucket strength by the presence of reinforcments can't be 100% relied upon.
One vendor may choose to use a heavier guage of metal and may not even require reinforcment even though it may in fact be a heavier duty loader. I suspect that a VERY small thickness increase on the metal would make HUGELY different flex, fold or crease characteristics.
I don't have a tractor in this range so I can't provide any input other than to point out a potential problem with the bucket classification method you are using. I don't think it hinders or aids any brand in particular, but classifying bucket strength by the presence of reinforcments can't be 100% relied upon.
One vendor may choose to use a heavier guage of metal and may not even require reinforcment even though it may in fact be a heavier duty loader. I suspect that a VERY small thickness increase on the metal would make HUGELY different flex, fold or crease characteristics.
hbarski
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I for one appreciate the pictoral descriptions. A picture is worth a thousand words, more or less. To me, there is no need to get into an arguement on symantics. If the hoses are where something could catch them, then they are vulnerable to damage. I know what it is like to get hit with 3000 psi hydraulic pressure from a ruptured hydraulic line.
I really hope this thread does not degenerate into a flame war. Too much valuable information would be lost.
I really hope this thread does not degenerate into a flame war. Too much valuable information would be lost.
OP
Bob_Skurka
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Getut . . . no comparison is perfect. We tried.
But what I do know is that a lot of people put bucket hooks on their FELs and then lift something heavy and the top lip collapses. By the definitions we used in this thread, I think it is safe to say that a H.D. bucket has a low likelyhood of bending while a L.D. bucket MIGHT POSSIBLY be more likely.
I also know that some manufacturers offer multiple buckets for the same loader. JD offers at least 2 buckets on most of their tractors and their HD bucket is pretty darn beefy. Smaller tractors generally have lighter buckets than bigger tractors (hey, that makes sense!). And if you don't have bucket hooks then none of it might matter to you.
Similarly with bucket shape. A "C" shaped bucket might hold more stuff and might protect the hood of the tractor better when the FEL is in the full up position (which would be a benefit) but it conversly could be easier to overload than an "L" shaped bucket. Again, it really depends on the uses of the operator and what is important to them.
Look at the loader lever position. I consider that really a matter of person choice, but I also think that it is easy enough to get used to anything. Does it really matter if you move your arm UP and DOWN to dump the bucket or if you push your arm FORWARD and BACK? Interestingly, JD seems to offer fender mount on many sizes of machines, NH offers fender mount on larger machines and loader mount on smaller units, it just is what it is. Some will find one more comfortable than the other. But they are different. And each person can figure out if they like one or the other, or if they don't really care!
I wanted to include 5 pictures of each, and show the operators platform from the left side of the tractor. I honestly could not figure out a way to OBJECTIFY the view. But I can tell you that some tractors are easier to get into and out of, and I can show you why, I just think if I do that someone will say I am bashing their particular tractor.
There are other 'comfort' issues that can be discussed as well, but those really fall into the SUBJECTIVE issues. So I don't want to go there.
But what I do know is that a lot of people put bucket hooks on their FELs and then lift something heavy and the top lip collapses. By the definitions we used in this thread, I think it is safe to say that a H.D. bucket has a low likelyhood of bending while a L.D. bucket MIGHT POSSIBLY be more likely.
I also know that some manufacturers offer multiple buckets for the same loader. JD offers at least 2 buckets on most of their tractors and their HD bucket is pretty darn beefy. Smaller tractors generally have lighter buckets than bigger tractors (hey, that makes sense!). And if you don't have bucket hooks then none of it might matter to you.
Similarly with bucket shape. A "C" shaped bucket might hold more stuff and might protect the hood of the tractor better when the FEL is in the full up position (which would be a benefit) but it conversly could be easier to overload than an "L" shaped bucket. Again, it really depends on the uses of the operator and what is important to them.
Look at the loader lever position. I consider that really a matter of person choice, but I also think that it is easy enough to get used to anything. Does it really matter if you move your arm UP and DOWN to dump the bucket or if you push your arm FORWARD and BACK? Interestingly, JD seems to offer fender mount on many sizes of machines, NH offers fender mount on larger machines and loader mount on smaller units, it just is what it is. Some will find one more comfortable than the other. But they are different. And each person can figure out if they like one or the other, or if they don't really care!
I wanted to include 5 pictures of each, and show the operators platform from the left side of the tractor. I honestly could not figure out a way to OBJECTIFY the view. But I can tell you that some tractors are easier to get into and out of, and I can show you why, I just think if I do that someone will say I am bashing their particular tractor.
There are other 'comfort' issues that can be discussed as well, but those really fall into the SUBJECTIVE issues. So I don't want to go there.
cowboydoc
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When coupled the hydraulics do not allow dirt in. Any connection whether higher or lower is going to get dirt on them. Whip your dang rag out and wipe off the connections before connecting unconnecting them. Pretty simple. Replacing your hoses because they caught a branch or something else while working is not so simple to fix. Bob is trying to do an excellent job of comparing tractors. Give the guy a break and let him go with it.
shoppintractors
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<font color="blue">When coupled the hydraulics do not allow dirt in. Any connection whether higher or lower is going to get dirt on them. </font>
My comments come from my personal experience. If I had a nickel every time I had to clean the quick disconnects of dirt, compost, etc., I would be a wealthy man right now. Your experiences may differ.
Don
My comments come from my personal experience. If I had a nickel every time I had to clean the quick disconnects of dirt, compost, etc., I would be a wealthy man right now. Your experiences may differ.
Don