Pin hole danger

rtvman · Apr 13, 2005

Hello all you fellow tractor guys!

My question and concern for everyone here is has anyone ever experienced a pin hole leak in a high pressure hydraulic line? If so, how did you know? and were you aware of how dangerous it could be? Has anyone ever been injured by this?

After just viewing a graphic picture of someone's hand that was sliced wide open by a hydro line leak, I am a little concerned as to the real possibility of a similar break happening on my tractor. I use my L35 often but I have to admit that I am a amateur when it comes to this type of hazard. How real is this pin hole hose failure? and what does everyone do to prevent it? if it can be prevented at all?

Thanks!
Kevin

PineRidge · Apr 13, 2005

Kevin if you have a pinhole leak you will know it because of the mist of oil. Recommended way to isolate the leak is with a piece of cardboard NOT your hand.

Hydraulic oil injected under the skin into tissue can cause gangrene.

Not something I would care to deal with.

slowrev · Apr 13, 2005

Use good hoses and don't jack up your relief valve past safety limits is the best advice I can give you on avoiding leaks.
On the pinhole leak safety...the farther you are from the leak the less dangerous it is. I have seen several hydraulic hoses rupture and have not gotten hurt yet, but it can be very dangerous.
Had a 3 inch or so hose rupture on an excavator one day, sort of exciting dumped about 50 gal or so of fluid out before I could shut down the machine.

SkyPup · Apr 14, 2005

I had a pin hole leak on a metal high pressure line to the HST on my Massey Ferguson but it was from a rock contacting the line tucked up on the undercarriage down below adjacent to the tranny. I could see and smell the high pressure hydraulic fluid shooting out the side of the tractor, at first I thought one of the water filled rear tires had been punctured but that was not the case. It shot out at high pressure about 30 feet (remember the oil is travelling at over 600 ft/sec. with the power of a rifle bullet), the line was not broken but had ruptured at a kink in the metal line with a hole about the size of a pin head. I shut it off and let the oil bleed out until no pressure left and left the tractor out in the field until I ordered a replacement high pressure tubing line and installed same.

We have an Kubota L39 with FEL & BH and a L-3130 with FEL & TNT, so I understand your concerns.

The best thing you can do to prevent accidental high pressure hydraulic injection into your body during a leak is to wrap all exposed lines that are anywhere near you whilst you are operating the controls (FEL, BH, & TNT lines from hydraulic control valves to boom, links, bucket etc.) with some 1000 denier ballistic nylon cordura material and anchor it with some nylon tie wraps, similar to what some of the lines come wrapped with OEM. The exposed hydraulic lines are the ones you want to wrap to contain any pinhole leaks or ruptures from spraying out at you while you are at the controls. Any exposed line you can see while you are working the controls should be wrapped and covered, remember if you can see the line it can spray you in the face.

It is a cheap and effective way to decrease the danger of a high pressure hydraulic injection accidentally happening to yourself.

BTW, the gangrene is a result of the severe tissue necrosis and resulting infestation with Clostridia perfringens.

rlee6 · Apr 14, 2005

How high does the pressure go in tractor hydraulics? Maybe 1000 psi? 2000? Has anyone been injured by leaky tractor hydraulic? Oil does not compress well. Once it leaves pressurized compartment into air, it become harmless very quickly. Pressurized gas is a different matter because it is compressed so much. Of course, if the pressure goes above a few 10,000 psi, water with sand particles can cut even metals. But that's way above tractor hydraulics.

JDGREEN4ME · Apr 14, 2005

Is there any "rule of thumb" for when you should change hydraulic lines? Like you have with timing belts etc. as a preventative measure.

Soundguy · Apr 15, 2005

( How high does the pressure go in tractor hydraulics? Maybe 1000 psi? 2000? )

Even my old 1940's and 50's ford N's will generate 1700 psi onthe hyds. I'd guess newer tractors may be in the 2200-2400 range

( Oil does not compress well. Once it leaves pressurized compartment into air, it become harmless very quickly. )

Um.. a stream of oil out a pin hole under forced compression by a hyd pump, can penetrate the skin at a few inches out from the line puncture.. so I wouldn't exactly call that 'very quickly'

Check your tractor owners manual.. there will probably be a warning about the injector pump, diesel injected under the skin, and gang greene.. that's not in there for the heck of it..

( if the pressure goes above a few 10,000 psi, water with sand particles can cut even metals. But that's way above tractor hydraulics. )

A 1600 to couple thou psi from a cheapy electric pressure washer from wallmart can damage your skin very quickly, at close range.. etc.

Soundguy

SkyPup · Apr 15, 2005

( How high does the pressure go in tractor hydraulics? Maybe 1000 psi? 2000? Has anyone been injured by leaky tractor hydraulic? )

2,000-3,000psi is about normal.

Lots of people have not only been injured by leaky tractor hydraulics but also lost their limbs, their eye sight, and their lives from the ensuing infection of the necrotic tissues destroyed by the injected oil. Diesel fuel injector pumps and fuel injectors also cause considerable loss of sight and limbs.

Try taking a syringe of used 30 weight oil and injecting 5cc's of it into your arm, leg, eyes, or face. Wait a few days and let us know what happens..... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

trlong · Apr 15, 2005

( ...BTW, the gangrene is a result of the severe tissue necrosis and resulting infestation with Clostridia perfringens. )

OK, now you have me worried. Last Fall I got sprayed when trying to relieve pressure from a line I was connecting (tractor turned off, ofcourse). I had a rag wrapped around it and safety glasses, longsleeve shirt...but no gloves. The rag slipped and enough hyd. fluid sprayed (rem.: motor was off) that it hit my glasses but mainly ended up on the back of my knuckles. Unfortunately, my knucles were scraped up and had been bleeding earlier from brush I'd moved. I washed thoroughly with mild detergent. I have not had any skin problems other than the knucles where the skin was open. Thought they'd heal but now every time my hands get dry, those spots that were scraped and got soaked with the fluid, crack and bleed. I should have seen a Dr.! Any one know if it's a bit late now? [yes, I had read the warning but....]

Feeling real stupid not to have immdiately seen Dr. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Tom

SkyPup · Apr 15, 2005

Gangrene is a result of the tissue necrosis caused by the hydraulic fluid delipidating and otherwise destroying whatever tissue it comes in contact with. Necrotic tissue is anerobic due to lack of blood supply or viable cells. The smell that emanates from the dead tissues is characteristic of the smell of death as protyelotic enzymes degrade the tissues into their basic chemical components, that smell is also indicative of Clostridial organism as they live and thrive in this dead environment.

You would have severe pain, black skin, fever, blisters from the gas the bacteria produces, systemic shock and numerous other life threatening factors if you had any Clostridial infection exhibiting the symptoms of gangrene.

It would be wise to see a physican anyhow though if you think that the wound did not heal or have any other pathological symptomology.

LBrown59 · Apr 15, 2005

a stream of oil out a pin hole under forced compression by a hyd pump, can penetrate the skin at a few inches out from the line puncture
=========
Would it have enough force to penetrate something like the card board roll that paper towels are rolled up on.

rlee6 · Apr 15, 2005

Soundguy is right. I didn't know what I was talking about. I got mixed up with line rupture. If a fine crack or a pin hole is formed, it's a different story.

Since I will soon be a tractor owner, let me ask you experienced tractor owners. Do you always wear long sleeve shirt and long pants when you are on the tractor? What is the realistic risk of pin hole/fine crack on hydraulic tubing? What about yellow jackets? Spiders, ticks, ants, snakes?

GerardC · Apr 15, 2005

Any one know if it's a bit late now? 

Not at all. Go to a DERMATOLOGIST. The skin is their specialty. Explain to them as you have to us and they'll know how to treat you.

LBrown59 · Apr 16, 2005

What about yellow jackets? Spiders, ticks, ants, snakes?

 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
 There are a lot of threads - post on these subjects 
 Seek (spelled search) and ye shall find.

trlong · Apr 16, 2005

SkyPup (and GerardC),

Thanks. Guess I'll call Monday and try to get an appointment (with dermatologist) as knucles are all bleeding again today. Guess I've abused my hands for too many years.

Tom

rtvman · Apr 16, 2005

Thanks everyone! I was just a little paranoid after seeing those awful tractor accident pictures from the other post.

Kevin

KiotiJohn · Apr 16, 2005

( SkyPup (and GerardC),

Thanks. Guess I'll call Monday and try to get an appointment (with dermatologist) as knucles are all bleeding again today. Guess I've abused my hands for too many years.
)
As long as there seems to be no infection, i.e. no puss pockets, redness and swelling, save your money.
Before going to bed, and when you don't have anything to do that would interfere, wet your hands and coat them with a small amount of petroleum jelly and cover them with gloves. This will help to moisturize them and allow the skin to heal. You can also simply use a good hand cream/moisturizer on them after each time you wash them. They should clear up quickly.
Try to get a hand cream that does not use any alcohol in it. John

Soundguy · Apr 17, 2005

( Since I will soon be a tractor owner, let me ask you experienced tractor owners. Do you always wear long sleeve shirt and long pants when you are on the tractor? What is the realistic risk of pin hole/fine crack on hydraulic tubing? What about yellow jackets? Spiders, ticks, ants, snakes? )

I genarally wear long sleavs, fullpants ( overalls... ) and gloves/ boots, and a wide brim hat.. or cap with neck flap. Mostly for skin protection from sunburn/cancer. When it's hot though.. somethines gotta wear shorts.

I doi use sunscreen as half of my familly has had skin cancer.

As for leaks.. I've seen only 2 in the past year of tractor use.. one was from an improperly connected fitting on a diesel injector pump.. other was a bonified pin hole leak in a rubber 2 wire line.. .. I'd call that 'rare'...

Just be safe.. this kind of injury will be immediatly noticeable due to the pain of the oil going under the skin.. This isn't an immediate life or death thing in a matter of minutes, etc.... Just get yourself to a hospital asap for proper treatment IF this ever happens to you...

Soundguy

txhawg · Apr 18, 2005

(
As long as there seems to be no infection, i.e. no puss pockets, redness and swelling, save your money.
)

KiotiJohn,

I have read numerous posts where you give advice on tractors, and good advice at that. I highly respect your opinions regarding mechanical equiupment, but unless you are yourself a doctor, refrain from giving medical advice like that to anyone. Recurring, bleeding sores over a years time indicates a problem that needs to be attended to by a professional.

MikePA · Apr 19, 2005

...and enough hyd. fluid sprayed... 
The damage most commonly associated with a pin hole hydraulic leak is when the fluid is under pressure and this pressure drives the fluid deep into the tissue. It's not clear what you mean by 'sprayed'. Do you mean that a solid stream of fluid under high pressure hit your glasses?

 but mainly ended up on the back of my knuckles. 
This is unclear. You mean it hit your glasses then dripped on your hand?

 Thought they'd heal but now every time my hands get dry, those spots that were scraped and got soaked with the fluid, crack and bleed. 
In other words, when the skin is not dried out, your knuckles look fine? In any case, see a doctor and let them know what happened.