Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?) *DELETED*

[RobertN]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

You hit on part of what I stated earlier. I cut my teeth on a TC Hawken .50 cal when I was 5 or 6. I have shot rifle all my life. When I started shooting pistol, I took a NRA/range sponsored intro to pistols. It was a half day thing. I wanted to shoot anyways, so the 2 hours in a class room setting before the two hours of shooting was fine.

I came out with some good data that helped my shooting skills, even though I was ok with a pistol in the first place. It was relatively inexpensive(it was 20 years ago, and maybe $25). The fee included a box of ammo, class and range time.

 

[Bird]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( More firepower was the reason our Dept. went to S&W .40 semi-autos. My thoughts are, if you haven't hit it in 6 tries, run away! )</font>

Yep, our department did the same. And I agree that something's wrong if you can't hit it in 6 tries. And while we carried the spare ammo for the revolvers in cartridge loops when I first started, in later years, most of us carried speed loaders for the revolvers, so it really didn't take much, if any, longer to reload the revolver than it did to reload an automatic.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I bought my old revolver when we switched out. )</font>

I carried the same revolvers my whole career; the one I was issued to start with, and the S&W Chief that I bought to carry off duty and/or plain clothes work. Of course, they are blue steel, and there came a time when the department was still issuing revolvers that they changed to the stainless models, and I was asked if I wanted to trade my blue steel for one of the stainless ones, but I declined. So I bought my city issued gun when I retired and still have it as well as the Chief.

The city never issued the .357 magnums, although a number of officers used to carry them, and some even went to the .44 magnums ( Dirty Harry sold lots of them for S&W /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif). But in later years, you were required to qualify twice a year with the specific gun(s) you would carry and with the same ammo you would be carrying. That was the end of the .44 magnums. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I've had fun shooting a .44 magnum, but never encountered anyone who could shoot 50 rounds in one fast enough to qualify on our pistol course. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[KubotaSteve]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

With the newer semi-autos out there and proper training those incidents should have never happened unless they hired Barney away from Mayberry /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. I have a .380 Makarov semi-auto. I use this currently for home defense (I know its a little small, but I use hydro-shock shells which should make up for that). The reason for the smaller weapon is that my wife can use it as well.
As far as cycling the slide when loading in a new clip, my slide stays open until I snap in a new clip, push the button on the side and presto you are ready to shoot. I have shot several hundred if not a thousand rounds through this pistol and it has not jammed once on me. The key is keeping the pistol clean and using decent ammo.
I keep my pistol ready so the only thing I have to do is kick the safety off and pull the trigger. Of course it is kept in a lock box day and night, except for at night it is unlocked with the keys are in the box (leave the keys in to ensure that it is locked every morning, can't go to work without the keys). As far as my kids, I teach them to respect fire arms not to be afraid of them.
Most burglars will not stop look at your pistol and say "Oh thats only a .380 go ahead and shoot me" They see a gun, they haul tail. I have had to go outside to investigate some noises in the night and it sure is convenient to grab the pistol and stuff a few extra clips in my jacket along with the walkie talkie than it would be to grab a revolver and a handful of bullets.
Next stop for me is a .45 Sig Sauer

 

[RobertN]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

Ranchman,
You make some good points. I think it is good to get instruction as an introduction to a new weapon. I did when I started shooting my own pistols way back when. It was not expensive, and gave me a good introduction.

For a first time pistol shooter, I would recommend a revolver over a Semi-auto. Why, when I really like semi's?

In either a .357 or .44, you can vary the loads. Start out with a .357, loaded with inexpensive mild load .38 wadcutters. It is cheap so you can practice a lot for little $$$. There is minimal recoil. This lets the person learn about proper handling, site picture, and follow-through without much recoil(and flinching). After sufficient practice of the basics, then the person can move up to hotter loads.

With the 9mm, 45acp, and .44 semi's I have shot, felt recoil was more substantial than in the .357 and .44 revolvers I have used with light target loads. Semi's tend to not like light loads, with less than spectacular slide operation. You can change springs and all, but that is requiring a bit from a beginner.

I do agree that beginners can handle a Semi-auto. I just think there are better ways to start a person, and reinforce the basics.

I think you are right too, as well as the others, in mentioning training. It is not that expensive, you get to have fun shooting, and learning PROPER SAFETY and handling. As a Cub Scout qualified and active archery instructor with bbgun range qauls also, That is the thing that we stress more than anything else; SAFETY. Learn it right, and remember it. My son is in 4H shooting also, even though I believe I have taught him well with single-shot rifle. Training is key, with emphasis on SAFETY. Even though I stress SAFETY, it is good that my son sees it reinforced by others.

I think it important to note throughout this thread, what you and others have mentioned; SAFETY, with lots of emphasis.

All of this is, of course, IMHO, FWIW.

 

[higgy]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

Kubotasteve,

I agree with teaching your kids not to be afraid of guns, but my boy is 2.5 and the girl is 5, both to young to understand the ramifications of a gun. When they are old enough both will be taught to use guns and heavy gun safety.

I love guns, but I really love my kids, and to put the guns away for a bit was and is not a problem.

 

[fivestring]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

<font color="red">"I've had fun shooting a .44 magnum, but never encountered anyone who could shoot 50 rounds in one fast enough to qualify on our pistol course." </font>

I know what you mean!

Most (and I'd say 95%+) have never shot a handgun (semi or revolver) or any gun for that matter under stress. That is the rub. Stress and adrenalin makes putty out of quite a number of people.
Joe Blow can plink all day with his semi and do good, but have someone draw down on him or break-in on him and confront him and what happens? Most would get themselves or families hurt.
A semi-auto is a good pistol, no doubt. But put under stress (combat course with pop-up targets and someone following you and yelling at the top of their lungs, or a thug robbing them) there are quite a few people that could not function.
We have police and military personnel that shoot consistent high 90's to 100 on the regulation range but come out with 40's and 50's on combat-type courses.
Folks, these people are trained to use weapons!

My .02 is if you want a handgun for self-defense -- <font color="blue"> REVOLVER </font> . It's point and shoot. No slides to remember to pull back... no safeties to remember to release. You will probably never get to use more than 3 or 4 rounds, anyway. A .357 is about as good as it gets.

 

[Bird]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( With the newer semi-autos out there and proper training those incidents should have never happened unless they hired Barney away from Mayberry )</font>

Steve, I'll agree that accidents with firearms should never happen, but . . . accidents with motor vehicles should never happen either, but they do . . . and sometimes even to "good" or "professional" drivers. I'm afraid the same holds true with firearms, driving an automobile, driving a tractor, or any other activity. Who can say he's never had an accident that he shouldn't have had? And what constitutes "proper training" with a firearm? Daily practice? Monthly? Annually?

I've owned guns since I was 10 years old, followed my Dad around hunting from the time I was 5. But many officers, at least those hired by big city departments, have never had a gun in their hand until they are hired and on the police range. Some like it, and practice a lot; some don't care for it and only shoot as much as they're required to. And as in driving an automobile, some are very careful; some not so careful. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[fivestring]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

<font color="red">"But many officers, at least those hired by big city departments, have never had a gun in their hand until they are hired and on the police range." </font>

Glad you said that, and not me! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
But, it is true. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
People would also be surprised how many Physical Ed. majors, English majors, Theater majors, etc. we have as police officers!
Seems the liberal arts field is not so big once school is over and reality sets in, so they must get a job... and guess who's usually hiring???? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[lonesome]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

About two years ago I broke down and bought a Ruger Blackhawk in .41 Magnum. I figured what the heck, I already have a .375 and .44 so might as well go for the triple. Well, after about four months of shooting the .41 the .357 and .44 have become conservation pieces. If your looking a a multi-role handgun, don't forget the .41. Steve

 

[RanchMan]

Re: Pistols(whats a good one to buy ?)

RobertN -

<font color="blue">For a first time pistol shooter, I would recommend a revolver over a Semi-auto. Why, when I really like semi's? </font>

Your points about economy, flexibility, and recoil are very valid points. I can appreciate and accept those as reasons someone might lean toward a revolver initially. (economy is one of the reasons I reload, and I would not start a rifle shooter off on .300 Win Mag for the recoil reasons, for example).

What I do not accept (as posted by others) is (1) the inherent "unsafe" nature of semi-auto pistols and (2) the lack of mental capacity for the "average" new shooter to grasp basic safety and operating procedures that will prevent so called "accidents."

I have a real problem when idiots shoot holes in their cars or lockers or whatever and either them or their proxies BLAME THE GUN! NO IT WASN'T THE GUN it was their STUPIDITY and failure to follow procedure. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif Doesn't matter what your profession is, it was stupid to do so and there is NO EXCUSE. (That’s why the courts charge people with "Involuntary Manslaughter" for example - yea, an "accident", but because you were being STUPID.) That's like a driver blaming Ford for them running a red light because of the driver's dorking-around while driving. How many frivolous defenses/lawsuits have we all seen based on this type of craziness? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif The same stupid "accidents" can happen with a revolver, or a single shot pistol for that matter. I simply want the blame put where it belongs -- on the individual, not the gun.

Then the other side of this that irks me are the insults (either direct or implied) regarding the lack of intelligence quotient a beginner posesses by some of us "old guys" in order to try and make ourselves look like "the Big Man." I think some on this thread are more interested in about bragging about their handgun handling prowess than offering up valuable knowledge to someone trying to get in to the handgun arena. This thread asked a "how much would a ‘good’ handgun cost." I find it troubling that people were all intent on offering up their "favorites" before they had enough information from the person posing the question to provide an intelligent answer as to the cost OR make a recommendation as to what would be a good fit for a first gun (i.e. cartridge).

As far as defensive situations, well, again, this is a non-ending debate that won’t be resolved here (or anywhere else). If someone likes a revolver, I have repeatedly said I have no problem with that - but I wish they would quit ramming that "Semi-Autos are JUNK in the defense arena" bull down everyone else’s throat. In certain situations one may be better than the other - but there are far to many variables to make a conclusion (or table) outlining them all. Many people have successfully defended themselves [/i]with both types[/i] and many people have had [/i]problems[/i] with both types that resulted in a tragic ending because they were unable to defend themselves.

Do I have a preference of one type of handgun over the other? NO. I shoot both and, again, as said earlier, have used both types for personal defense weapons.

If someone wants to teach a newcomer the "fundamentals" on a revolver, that’s OK, but my entire point is that decision should not be based on the bogus reasons of inherent dangers of the semi-auto nor by assuming the average newcomer lacks the mental faculties to understand the concepts or procedures. The reasoning behind one's actions matter. I'm glad you are one of those that seem to understand my point.