Placebo effect...really?

[MossRoad]

I took that to mean that he applied the WH, then drank the beer!

Don't be so sure... :laughing:

 

[stuckmotor]

The Wikipedia article on homeopathy and speculation about why it seemed effective in the 19th century was very interesting.

 

[stuckmotor]

I injured my left shoulder maybe 40 years ago, and for the last couple of months it has been so sore that I cannot sleep, or even lay on my left side for any length of time. Yesterday, Sharn Jean was going through her jewelry box, gathering up several of her old watches that I had promised to take in for new batteries, and when she gave me the watches, she slipped an old "Bio-Ray" bracelet on my left wrist. I recalled her buying it years ago, and apparently she ran on to it looking for her old watches. I didn't pay much attention, but left it on all day. Last night, when I went to bed, I was able to not only lay on my left side, but go to sleep without pain.

Now I am trained in science, have a BS degree, in biology and chemistry; worked in industrial research for 16 years, practiced law for about 25 or so, and don't consider myself very subject to suggestion. I believe the reduction in pain was not only real, but significant; much more so than a couple of Ibuprofens. all of the information I have seen so far, say that the effects of the bracelet are the result of the placebo effect (via scientific studies no less). In my case, the effect has been not only significant, but almost immediate...but now I am totally confused, but being a pragmatic individual, I'll take the results and the good night's sleep.

Any comments welcome!

2LaneCruzer,
It's been well over a year since you started the thread. How's your shoulder feeling?

 

[oosik]

When I'm in serious pain ( 2x in my life ) I really don't care what relieves that pain. As long as it does not make my condition worse - what difference does it make. My pain has been in my shoulders. Loud sound - music - will take my mind off the pain. Sometimes walking around the property will do it. Times I have used narcotic prescriptions. I've never tried acupuncture or the bracelet. But that's because they were not available to me at the time.

My BS and MS are both in science. Let those who know more than I do - figure it out. When the pain is truly intense - who cares.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

2LaneCruzer,
It's been well over a year since you started the thread. How's your shoulder feeling?

Unfortunately, the results were temporary, and I'm back where I was before, and I don't wear the bracelet any more. The covid has messed up my regimen, but I have enough doctor's appointments lined up maybe I can get some relief...but I'm realistic; as an octogenarian, I don't expect to become a lumberjack, but I'm hoping I can at least walk to the mailbox and back and keep my yard mowed!

 

[stuckmotor]

I'm sorry to hear the pain is back.
My doctor claimed he could sew my torn rotator cuff back. Having cattle to tend I asked him how long after the operation it would before I could dig a post hole in real hard ground. The jerk said, "NEVER, I GUESS YOU WANT A FULL HEAD OF HAIR!".
In the words of the great sage (removed), "Dese doctors need to learn who they de employees of."

 

[Industrial Toys]

My various pain and afflictions have always been made frustratingly complex by poor or no diagnosis. No blood test I have ever taken tested positive for anything. Except maybe arthitis.
I was in excruciating pain years ago, that would move around my body. Leg one day, then arm the next, then the other leg and same arm, just moving around. Not being able to move that limb. EXPERTS diagnosed it as Reuamatoid (sp?) Arthritis.

Chiropractor/Naturopath (sp?) suggested Vitamine C and Homeopathic Arnica Montana. Symtoms went away. EXPERTS didn't say much about that.

I was under a lot of stress from a relationship, which I removed myself from. My gut feeling, is that it was more that than anything.

Much about our health or lack thereof is self inflicted. The body has incredible means of healing itself. But you can't expect it to heal, when you are still damaging it or have done way too much damage way too long.

 

[Fuddy1952]

I had a really bad motorcycle accident (one of many...but the worst one) 40 years ago. Mainly left shoulder then over the years a lipoma grew. It was removed a couple years ago, size of a softball!
I still can't sleep on left side for long either.
The surgery certainly helped, but it sure laying on that side.
Maybe I'll order the bracelet and try it.

 

[Fuddy1952]

I was looking up the Bio Ray Bracelet, but there is a wide variety of prices and they're different materials: gold, stainless steel, copper, etc. Some are a braided cable.
Which one should I get? Thanks so much!

 

[stuckmotor]

Fuddy,
A few days of relief is a few days of relief, no matter what the reason. Good luck.

 

[stuckmotor]

I've heard of people.making their own out of copper wire.

 

[Fuddy1952]

Thanks. I have heard about copper too. I'm thinking my wife has a copper one. Not sure which works best. My shoulder doesn't hurt when I'm working, just laying on left side in bed.

 

[stuckmotor]

To be honest, if you so much as think it might work, I suspect a rubber band might be just as good. The mind and how it handles pain are beyond my comprehension.

 

[CADplans]

Well, my latest "fix" is not a permanent cure, but, it helps for several days at a time.
The fix is derived from a suggestion that a pain doc that I go to directed me to,,
His recommendation is a topical ointment called PENNSAID,, a prescription product, and he gave me a dozen sample packs.

PENNSAID is like a miracle cure,, apply it, let it set (do not put clothing over it or wipe it off) then in about 10-30 minutes, the area is pain-free,,
The main problems with PENNSAID are;
1) it is only recommended for knee pain,
2) it is CRAZY expensive,, ( in my case, the pharmacy quoted $2,300 for a tube)

There is an over the counter version of PENNSAID, which is relatively cheap, but, for me it does not work hardly at all. (VOLTAREN is the name of the generic)
The OTC version is something like 10% of the strength of PENNSAID, and only cost $25 for a rather large tube of it.
I guess if I applied it a couple times a day, it would be OK,, but, i was spoiled by PENNSAID,,
so,, I went researching,,

There is a video on the PENNSAID website (the only place I found this info,, by the way) and that video hinted that PENNSAID is derived from DMSO,,,
Don't hold my feet to the fire, I don't have the exact quote,, you can go looking for it if you want it.

Anyways,, I found DMSO is available at Tractor Supply, and on Amazon.
I ordered the stuff from Amazon,,

DMSO 70/30 16 oz. Pharma Grade Gel w/ Aloe Vera Super Biologic 99.995% Low Odor Pharma Grade : Health & Household

Buy DMSO 70/30 16 oz. Pharma Grade Gel w/ Aloe Vera Super Biologic 99.995% Low Odor Pharma Grade on Amazon.com ✓ FREE SHIPPING on qualified orders

www.amazon.com

All I can say is that it works!!
Disclaimer DO NOT USE THIS, I offer this info for reference only,,
This info is for entertainment purposes only,,

OK,, I used a rubber glove,, and applied about 10% of the amount of PENNSAID that I had applied,,
I washed it off about 10 minutes after application,,

The Results?? I was pain free for three days,, I consider it a win. I have been using it for just over two months.

The pain I use the DMSO for is some form of Achilles tendinitis,, it is painful when I walk down steps. I have had that pain for over three years.
PENNSAID was the first relief that I found,, DMSO was the second.
Granted, I have to apply it a couple times a week, I am good with that.

The pain had increased to the point that I hated going to the basement to do laundry. Now, I go right up and down the steps, pain-free.

PENNSAID, and VOLTAREN are NSAIDS like aspirin, and ibuprofen,, even though they are topically applied, I think they have similar side effects. Probably the same for DMSO. I use so little DMSO, I feel the side effects that might be possible should be minimized. I only use an amount that would equal the size of a shirt button , twice a week.
My doc said that topically applying does minimize side effects, as compared to taking pills internally.

 

[DrRobM]

Many of us with lots of letters behind our names like to think that we are experts on the human body, when in the grand scheme of things we are likely just scratching the surface of the truth. I see empirical evidence and new studies nearly everyday that ten or fifteen years ago would have been considered lunacy. It’s best to keep an open mind and understand the limitations of our knowledge of the universe.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I injured my left shoulder maybe 40 years ago, and for the last couple of months it has been so sore that I cannot sleep, or even lay on my left side for any length of time. Yesterday, Sharn Jean was going through her jewelry box, gathering up several of her old watches that I had promised to take in for new batteries, and when she gave me the watches, she slipped an old "Bio-Ray" bracelet on my left wrist. I recalled her buying it years ago, and apparently she ran on to it looking for her old watches. I didn't pay much attention, but left it on all day. Last night, when I went to bed, I was able to not only lay on my left side, but go to sleep without pain.

Now I am trained in science, have a BS degree, in biology and chemistry; worked in industrial research for 16 years, practiced law for about 25 or so, and don't consider myself very subject to suggestion. I believe the reduction in pain was not only real, but significant; much more so than a couple of Ibuprofens. all of the information I have seen so far, say that the effects of the bracelet are the result of the placebo effect (via scientific studies no less). In my case, the effect has been not only significant, but almost immediate...but now I am totally confused, but being a pragmatic individual, I'll take the results and the good night's sleep.

Any comments welcome!

The placebo effect is a real thing that drug companies hate because it keeps half of their new drugs from gaining FDA marketing approval.

 

[Frankenkubota]

For years we have been hearing about the kind old gentle but wise Dr giving the ladies sugar pills as placebos because......

They worked.....

 

[Frankenkubota]

The wife and I have always wanted to loose some weight, and ran across the KETO diet last year,,
as we started to show interest in KETO, we watched a BUNCH of YouTube videos,,

Several videos stated the pain relief effect that occurred when carbs are reduced (or eliminated)
Heck, there was such a fuss about carbs and pain,, there was a BIG lawsuit about it,,,

I will not go into our results, but, if you have enough pain,, you can completely cut carbs from your diet because of the pain relief,,
Since Thanksgiving,, I have had one donut (tax celebration) , three slices of bread, three pieces of birthday cake that were less than 2 inches by 2 inches square,,
That is it,,,
The only sugar that has been used in our house in 2019 was used to make hummingbird feeder solution,,,

Oh, yea,, EACH time I had one of the high carb foods listed above,, the next day, I suffered with returned pain,,, :confused2:

My buddy swears by the reduced carbo thing. Changed his diet over 2 years ago, so did his wife, that helps.

Both have lost bookoo weight and have virtually no joint pain but....cauliflower pizza crust?

 

[old and tired]

I ate tons of Carrots for most of my life... had great eye sight until 58 y.o.... that's when I found out it was not true that carrots were good for eyes!

 

[Oaktree]

Both have lost bookoo weight and have virtually no joint pain but....cauliflower pizza crust?

Can't be as bad as this: Broccoli & Kale Pizza Crust
This is just plain wrong in so many ways...