Pole barn costs - got some quotes. Fair price?

[RobA]

..... Does your design include overhangs, eave and peak ventilation? Even if you plan to insulate later, at least consider solar guard (bubble wrap with foil which is the same as efoil?) under the roof steel. This will almost completely negate condensation. You did consult your locallity for code checks?.......

QRTRHRS:
My plans do include the things that you mentioned. I had one builder recommend insulation and the Amish builder specifically recommended the bubble wrap/foil insulation. Seems like all of the ideas the other builders had the Amish builder had as well - and then some. I'll be signing an agreement this week and am scheduled to see his recent work beforehand. As far as code checks - my township is relaxed about ag storage barns. All I needed was an erosion & sediment control plan permit ($200) and a zoning permit ($52). I am always sure to file permits and include complete information. Creates less headaches now and later.

I guess I viewed being near Philly as possibly making costs higher. You make a good point about competition though. I live in an area with a lot of horses and agriculture. Lots of farms = lots of barns = lots of barn builders = (hopefully) competitive pricing.

 

[Builder]

I've been looking into getting a pole barn built mainly for tractor storage. For various reasons I've settled on a 24'x48' barn with a loft area for light storage. The style will be board and batton with a metal roof. The barn will pretty much be the same design as in the attached picture (without stalls or exterior stall doors). Features will be:

- 24'x48'
- 10' foot walls
- 8' overhang
- metal roof
- concrete slab w/ fibermesh and rebar
- 2 dormer windows
- 2 split sliding doors
- 2 loft doors
- pedestrian door
- gutters, roof insulation etc.

I talked with several barn builders and got some prices. Then my excavating contractor gave me the name of an Amish barn builder. His quote was the best but only by a few $1,000. His price was $39,750. That's about $34.50 per square foot.

Given what I am getting does the price sound reasonable? Keep in mind I live in the northeast about 40 miles outside of Philadelphia.

No, it sounds too high. Have you checked with Conestoga? They had a special on a 40 x 60 that costs less than what you're paying for a 24 x 48. It came out to ~25/sf. (floor not included) One of their salemen belongs to my gym. I can get concrete flatwork with fiber & 5/8" bar on 36" grid done here in PA for ~3.50/sf. My guess is the extra gingerbread (insul, overhang) you want would only cost a few more bucks per square foot. Try Conestoga, it's only gonna cost you a phone call. Ask for a guy named "Mike" from the West Chester area. He's in his mid-20's. Don't have his last name.

Also, on the Amish builder thing: Try to remember the reasons they are cheaper:

They pay no almost no taxes since they are considered a "religious cult" or a "church group". After you pay them, they actually pocket a lot more money off of you than a "regualr Joe" builder like me, after I pay my taxes. They also employ very young helpers, many are children, who get little or no wages for helping. they also don't have to carry insurance or workmen's compensation, saving them huge sums of money compared to a builder like myself.

This may or may not matter to you, but if what you did for a living had Amish competition, you might be a bit resentful. It's not fair competition. You'll notice that they live their innocent lives on the farm in lancaster County, with no power or phones, but when they arrive at your jobsite, be **** sure they'll have diesel 4x4 trucks and state of the art power tools. A bit hippocritical if you ask me.

 

[srs]

Scesnick, I sent you a private message. please let me know if you got it. Thanks

 

[RobA]

No, it sounds too high. Have you checked with Conestoga? ......

I did check with Conestoga - comparing apples to apples they were about 15% more than my best price. In fact they were the 3rd best price. As I have said to others who replied to this post I am not looking for the cheapest deal - just a fair one for the barn/features I want.

I hear you about the Amish. I do realize why they are generally cheaper and I can understand why a competitor might not appreciate them. Sort of like all of the low priced Chinese goods at Walmart and the clothes we buy made by 12 year old kids from Bangladesh.

 

[Lucky1]

L-39 Where do you get the amish pay no taxes? I live amongst the amish, I have amish work for me and have great respect for them. As you may or may not know they have their own schools, they pay school tax for our schools, plus thier schools. They also pay taxes on thier property, they pay personal taxes just like you. In many cases young couples in the teens own million dollar plus farms. If you hire an amishman you will never worry about them being on time or hung over or coming to work smoked. They are not some crazy cult, they are a religious group. hard working and honest. Competition makes us all better.

 

[RobA]

L-39 Where do you get the amish pay no taxes?

I believe that the Amish opt out of the Social Security/Medicare systems. The government allows groups, like the Amish, to do this who can prove that they can and do take care of their own. However, if they are employed by a non-Amish employer they do pay Social Security taxes. As far as other taxes they pay.

L-39 Competition makes us all better.

Well said. I absolutely agree with that. Remember when everyone said don't buy Japanese cars because it put Americans out of work - even though the Japanese cars were better? GM/Ford were forced to get better (or at least try). We could start a whole other discussion on that one though....

 

[RobA]

Update: I met with the Amish barn builder tonight. We agreed on everything, signed the agreement and I wrote him a check to get started. Turns out his price was better than I thought. When we went over the details and I added a few features (cement under the 8' overhang, 4 extra windows) his price remained the same. Afterwards he took me to the latest 2 barns he built (actually I had to drive - he's Amish). Holy cr@p! This guy does excellent work. These were not simple pole barns. He does quality work and really does things right. And he's a really nice uy to boot. I can't wait until he gets started.

 

[Dargo]

Well, Dargo, you hit on electrical service ... 200 amp. That sounds like a lot.. I'm wondering why you needed that much?
<snip>

Is 50 amps sufficient in your experience?

Sorry, I haven't read here in a while. I ran 000 copper wire to my barn and I had a real bugger of a time getting it through a 4" conduit. I should have used 6" conduit. For power needs, anytime I use my plasma cutter my air compressor has to kick on. It is a 23 cfm compressor and it draws 40 amps. My plasma cutter draws 50 amps. My A/C draws another 50 amps if it kicks on. I'm way over 100 amps right there that could very well be used at any given time. If someone else is with me, like my dad, and is welding while I'm cutting; I think you get the picture. That doesn't even count any lighting, refrigerator, car lift etc. that may be used at any given time.

I haven't run short on power, but only 50 amp service wouldn't be close for most shops. If you have a welder and your air compressor kicks on you'll jump past 50 amps even if you are working with no lights on.

I have 600 amp service at my house and, now after being here for a while, I wish I would have gone for 800 amps. I have 200 to my barn, 200 to my pool house, and 200 to my main house. I haven't had any issues yet, but I'm completely full at my main house. I would need more service if I were to add on anything.

I do recall it costing me almost $2000 many years ago just for the 000 copper lines to run to my barn. With the prices of copper now, I'd hate to think what 450' of it would run. Either way, copper or aluminum, I wouldn't cut yourself short on your electric needs.

 

[barticus73]

Rather than sub feed my barn, I have a spearate service installed there. Saves on all that extra cable from service to subpanel.

 

[kwahl]

Great thread guys.

RobA, I live in Western New York (4o miles South East of
Buffalo) and was wondering if you could ask your builder if he knows of any Amish builders in my area. I will be building soon and have not had any luck in locating Amish builders in my area.

Thanks,
Keith